SPEAKER_02 0:34

Today's episode is welcome because I'm in the middle of the blacktail hunting season here in Washington State FSA. And my guest at Scott Haugen is basically a really awesome blacktail hunter. And you're going to find out why in this episode because it blew my mind with a number of things. He came on to talk about patients and that's kind of where the podcast starts. And then it dives into techniques on blacktail hunting and his background and what he's done and what him and his family do and a number of other topics. But you will learn a lot about black tails and how they operate and how Scott is so successful in hunting them. So stick around. Thanks to Scott for coming on and I hope you enjoyed. We just had a fun trouble treating escapade with Skype, so that was fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

That was fun. Here we are back to talking on the landline. Just make things momental ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

I know. It was way easier this way. Can you take a second and kind of just do a quick introduction or a long introduction of who you are? I know I know who you are. I've seen books. I've seen I've been all over your website and downloaded a bunch of information from you. But uh just take a second to tell me who you are and tell the the audience who you are and go from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, well no, sure. I uh you know been very blessed to make a living in the outdoors for gosh, this is we're wrapping up our 17th year now, going full-time. Uh originally started as an outdoor writer, and when I first got into outdoor writing, there were about 400 of us that were were their families were solely making a living off outdoor writing. And uh, you know, that's fewer people that are that are playing in the NBA right now. So I thought, well, that's pretty cool that you can make a profession out of out of something that that's you know that that that is so challenging. And and uh and over the years people have just been dropping off by the wayside, you know, magazines have changed. Um I'm writing more magazines than ever, and now I'm told there are less than 50 of us in the country that are that are doing them. So we're fortunate there. Um got into TV by way of writing. You know, we my wife and I were school teachers before we got into this business full-time. Um I have my master's degree in in uh in uh education with a biology and and earth science background. So I I was a school teacher for 12 years, so was my wife. We taught in Alaska and Sumatra Indonesia um for years now. Now we're we're both full-time in the outdoor industry. I'm on the hunting and fishing side, so is she, but more on the cooking and game and field prep between the two of us. I don't know, we have over 20 books. Um fortunate to do shows over the years. I did a lot of startup television shows that I hosted for the outdoor channel and uh and some other companies, Wolf Creek Productions, uh out of Michigan, did a few shows for them and all wonderful people to work with. I think I've hosted, gosh, over 450 TV shows. Uh I've written over 2,500 magazine articles, 20 some books. I do 60 some seminars a year, if not more. And uh very fortunate to travel the world uh hunting, fishing, writing, enjoying the outdoors. And and you know, bottom line is I I I love this knowledge and what I learn with others, and and I've found that there's no other way than you know to better convey how to do something than going out and learning yourself. And when I first got into the this industry, and I've been hunting and fishing my whole life. I in fact I just wrote a magazine article today that uh um refer back to my first steel head I got. That was 49 years ago when I was four years old. So I've been you know hunting and fishing for for my whole life, got into the outdoor industry at a at a great time. When we lived in Alaska, we taught school at a couple uh um very remote uh new feed Eskimo villages, you know, 24 hours a day of darkness in the in the winter for two months. Uh I ran a 200-mile wolf trap line. We lived a subsistence lifestyle up there. One year we went 199 straight days below zero. So so you know, it lived the life a little different than down here in the northwest. So we uh you know we we've lived uh a very fun life and and uh like I said, I've learned so much and being able to come back and share that with people now. You know, whether they're hunters or just outdoor enthusiasts, um, you know, that that that's really what I'm all about. And that that's why I think the timing for what you're doing with your program is is perfect and why I'm excited to be a part of it. So that was that was a short version, though it seemed like a long version, but I hope that answered your question.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

No, that absolutely does. And i I'm sitting here when you when you said that you'd be willing to come on, I'm like, okay, what am I gonna talk to this guy about? Because I feel like you we could go in to so many different directions. I'm like, oh, where where do we start? You know, I don't want to like cover you I want to do it justice and and cover the right parts. And the first thing that popped out to me is and uh you asked for how long you've spent in the industry and like one of the things that attracted me to what you were doing is like I hunt blackels and and you've written I know you've written some articles and written books on black tail hunting. And both blacktail hunting comes a ton of patience, and in the outdoors comes a ton of patience. So I was like, well, maybe we can talk about like this guy doesn't keep doing what he's doing if he doesn't have like uh a a lifelong, you know, a lifetime worth of like skills and patience and successes and failures. So uh I thought that might be a good place to start if if you're if you want to go into that direction.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Well Yeah, no, we can go any direction you you know you want. I I I love it all. And uh you know the the thing I love about it is there's always learning to be done, especially with blacktails. I think the Columbia deer or Columbia blacktail deer is is the toughest um trophy class animal to consistently get in North America. They live in such a habitat, it's brushy. Um, you know, I I've got trail camera pictures of deer, you know, their whole entire life and never seen them once in daylight. Uh you know, I have some deer where I've loved over 120 hours, you know, just of in the field hunting them, not counting trail camera work and summer scouting, and you know, uh have hunted a single buck for four years and and and you know, before I got them, or maybe have never seen them again. And and uh yeah, they're tough. So y you know, I've been fortunate to hunt all around the world and travel to 40-some countries, and the best hunters that I've hunted with that that really know their skills and and actually know hunting inside out are uh are people that grew up hunting black-tailed deer and quite for uh frankly, Roosevelt Elf.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

So uh so you're you're literally describing uh monitoring a an animal for what could be years and maybe seeing a like a mature trophy style animal. And you may never even see him in daylight, so whereas you know uh a lot of guys might just give up and and and move on. But uh again, you're like persistent and uh patient about this thing, like you're waiting for the opportunity. So you I I don't know if you've always been like that or if it was something learned. Was it was this patience thing learned or was it innate in you and and how did that develop?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Well, you know, it it it's interesting. It is it was learned at an early age, uh, you know, even before I could hunt, you know. I we have pictures of me going out on the shoulders of my granddads and both granddads, as well as my dad, you know, them literally carrying me out in the woods hunting. So I you know, I learned about patient hunting, you know, but gosh, when I was starting at four or five years old, and and you know, saw a lot of deer go down. But um you you you know, you you gotta think back, and a lot of people say, gosh, there aren't as many big bucks now as there, you know, as there was, you know, 40, 50 years ago. And and I think there are, and what I'm seeing on trail cameras, I I think there are a lot of big bucks out there. But you know, you gotta remember the general season back in the 60s and 70s were uh you know went through November, so went through the prime rut. You know, logging was going on everywhere in Western Oregon, Washington, Northern California. So so visibility was was extremely high. So, you know, there are some things that have caused deer densities, you know, blacktail densities to drop in certain pockets, but um I I'm seeing so many more deer on on trail cameras now than I was, you know, even 12, 15 years ago as far as big bucks go. Um and I don't know if it's because I'm moving my trail cameras into different areas or looking um you know a little harder now that it's the the deer aren't as is you know easily visible um you know from from log units or whatever. So so I'm working the you know the second growth uh you know river bottoms, valley floors, uh you know, foothill brushy train stuff a lot more than than we would have 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

When when you're working these areas and you're you you know that they're there clearly because you have proof of them, but before you go out in these spots, like how are you preparing for your like you may not you you know for a fact you may not even see them. Like you how many days have you gone in a row without ever seeing a an a blacktail?

SPEAKER_00 10:10

That's a really good question. So my my whole scouting, I I really try to keep track of these things year-round. And and if you think about it from a starting point, when is the best time to really start looking for these deer? My favorite time to start scouting is right around the 4th to the 10th of July. Um when it's really hot. These bucks are in velvet. Uh uh I'll see more bucks in one day of scouting during that hot July-August time frame than I'll see an entire year of uh entire season of hunting them. Uh, you know, they're out, they're this velvety tissue, it's some of the fastest growing tissue on the planet. Uh a lot of blood, very sensitive. They don't want to damage it. You know, that's their status symbol. It's it's what they use to fight each other with and you know, fight off predators and and uh you know the the black tail rut is a very um um it it can be a fight to the death, you know, type of encounter. So so they don't want to damage that that headgear. So that's why they're out in the in the open. And the the hotter the day is the better. Uh yeah, and I'm trying to get off, you know, off uh you know the beaten path roads, um, you know, maybe mountain biking into gated roads where people aren't gonna be as readily uh you know travel uh you know ready to travel in those and and uh find where they're doing the logging. The logging is still is still the key. And and now with all these fires we're having uh burns are gonna be phenomenal. The burns are actually gonna produce deer this year, you know, whereas in 30 years ago a burn wouldn't start producing deer for you know three, four, or five years because of all the logging that was going on. But now what I've found with burns is you know, as soon as we get this rain, a lot of that terrain that burned, you might just have a half inch of green grass that starts growing. But those deer are finding that because logging practices have changed. They're spraying now after they cut, they're you know, spraying before they plant, so the underbrush doesn't have a chance to grow up like it used to. So a lot of these deer move into these uh into these burns and feeding on grass. So back to your question, I'll start in July, and and that's really when I that that's when I find the deer. That's when I know uh that I have a chance of killing the buck. Now what happens as soon as they start shedding their velvet um, you know, can really vary depending on whether whether or not you're hunting, you know, uh coast range bucks, which are you know largely homebody deer, valley floor bucks, which which then go into very tight seclusion. Um or you know, uh foothill bucks uh in the Cascades, those are usually deer around that 15 to around that five to fifteen you know, two thousand foot elevation mark. These deer can can move around a lot, they'll go up, down, they'll go up drop down to a valley floor. It's nothing for them to you know cover a couple miles in a night, you know, during the prerut. So so you know, and then you have your high country bucks as well. So so you you know, it really it really kind of depends where you're at. I have one spot I've uh where last year I had over a dozen bucks. I had one big buck, 140 inch um plus six by six that I I wanted to get. And uh actually found him in May when I was turkey hunting, and I saw him in the daylight, and he was four by four in uh it it it towards the end of May, which in in my area you just don't see. And and I got trail cameras, I hunted them all last season. I I saw him, I found him once, uh found him one time towards the end of the rifle season, and he was bedded in in Scotch Room. I found him from about a mile and a half away, made the stocking on him, and uh and right when I got there, look landill, right when I got there, a guy pulled up on the quad. I mean, I was I was 30 seconds from pulling the trip on this thing and getting in position. And and the guy on the quad, you know, said, gosh, there just aren't any deer around this year, are there? Are you seeing anything? I said I shook my head and I said, No, I haven't seen a thing. And uh 12 different bucks within within a half mile of where we were standing there. But you know, that that's the mindset. You know, these people are a lot of people are driving through the habitat in quads instead of walking. And you know, these deer aren't dumb. They know the minute that that gate opens the opening season, they're they're in the brush. The big bucks are you know, they're tucked in in stuff where you literally have to get on your hands and knees to to find him. And I went into that deer's bed, I I hunted him two more days and the season was over. And I went back in where he was bedded just to try to learn something about it. And you know, this Scotch broom was 15 feet tall. And these trails that they had through there were were it was just amazing. I mean, if he didn't want to be seen, he would, you know, he would never be seen. So back to your point, and again, it's kind of a long-winded answer, but um, but I have trail cameras back up in this spot and I've not seen one buck. I didn't see one buck scouting this summer. There was I haven't picked up one buck until two days ago I got a three-point on my trail camera. And where where all the deer went, I don't I I have no clue because it's been a hotbed for me for the last seven or eight years.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

So uh this guy that you interacted with, uh I I'm hearing like two different, you know, differ two different mindsets, you know. And you mentioned like, you know, a lot of guys just turn on the quad, they run up the the trail, and and you know, they're like, oh, there's no deer around here. But there's clearly a different mindset between uh what you're doing and what and what they're doing. And where's that like how have you trained yourself to to just accept the fact that it's not gonna be easy? Because those blacktails are just like uh crazy.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, i i it uh it it's tough. Fortunately, where this deer was at, I was able to get across an opposite hillside. Uh you know, and if people saw me, you know, in my truck or you know, hiking down the road in my spotting scope, they they probably just assumed I was looking for a deer, you know, in the unit I was standing in 400 yards below me. Um I was trying to locate a buck from over a mile and a half away from my spotting scope. So you know, I have a I have high-end optics, um, you know, I I have the Brovsky ATX uh spotting scope with a good tripod that's not gonna move in the wind. I for this I you know have the 95 millimeter lens and and like I say, I I'm locating bucks you know, it's so far away that they have no clue I'm there. And that's what I want to see. And I'm you know, when I find a buck um like that one that I've been you know tracking all summer long and and and catching them on trail camera all fall long, you know, I I figure I have one shot to kill that deer in the season. And uh and I don't want to screw it up. So, you know, what what when he when I found him bedded, uh I uh you know, I waited for the thermals to shift and and uh by the time things got stable, you know, even from that distance I could see you know what what the wind was doing with the trees and and uh you know the Scots broom and so forth and and uh so so I knew, you know, and I got my landmarks as I took off and and started walking and and uh and everything held true. I mean I had the wind you know perfect in my face the whole way and took my boots off and was walking up, you know, some rocks just getting ready to to get a shot at this thing and and uh and boom it all fell apart y you know here. So so I think a lot of people's mindset is I just got off work, I better agree and have the last two hours and I want to cover as much ground as I can. Because I've done my scouting in the summer and seen physically seen deer and I know almost you know w exactly or within a couple hundred yards of where they're going to be you know during the sum during the fall. And I've caught them on trail camera, I know where those deer are at. There's there's no there's no guessing or or hoping or wishing for me. I I never go into an area thinking, wow, I really hope I stumble upon a deer. You know, if I don't go into an area saying, gosh, that I know there are there are deer here, I've seen the sun, I've seen old rubs, I've seen, you know, found shed antlers, I've caught them on trail camera. You know, I'm I'm I'm very confident that every time I set foot in the woods, you know, I I I'm gonna I'm gonna punch a tag. You know, really does that does that happen, but just having that confidence level, you know, is key. I passed up several, you know, 120, even a couple, you know, two that were in the low 130 inches uh inch class last year, and and uh because I wanted to get this big buck. Um I'd killed a couple bucks, you know, in other states. My wife killed a deer, and and and and I really like hunting these big these big old black tails. They're just they're just so challenging to get on. So so my mindset for them, you know, it's a lot different than you know than going out and and meat hunting where where you might just happen upon one by covering ground.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

So so you're kind of I mean like you said, you're not throwing a dart in the i in the dark and hoping you hit something. You you're sitting there, you you know where these guys are at. You're so in your mind there's no you're not really that curious if they're if they exist or don't exist. To you, they could be around every single corner, and you know the corner they could be around.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I'm not, you know, I'm like I say, I'm not I'm not just I'm not hoping they'll be there. I'm hoping to find them. So when I'm set up in the spotting scope, I'm looking for these things bedded down, I'm looking, you know, for an antler, I'm looking, you know, for a leg or an ear. Uh I I see I I picked up some of those uh a couple warehouser permits the last few years, and a lot of people in Oregon have been, you know, kind of kind of you know dragging their head about that, you know, the pay-to-play hunting, and uh, you know, that's just the reality of it. And we're we're one of the last states to to act actually be subject with that. But it it you know, all go uh all go into those areas, you know, get a permit for 300 bucks and uh 300 you know dollars and and uh where the logging is still going and and it it's absolutely unreal the number of deer that are still out there. Yeah, and still talk to people even who are out there hunting and they're like, gosh, you know, there's a lot of sign, but we're not seeing any deer. And all sit there and glass deer after deer after deer, bedded, bedded right in these units. The people are driving by. I mean these deer are watching multiple cars drive by them, you know, all morning, all all evening, all afternoon long. But but people are just driving in, and I think they're just expecting to see a deer in the uh, you know, in the road or standing along the edge of the timber or you know, standing up looking around, and they're not really setting up and tediously glassing. You know, I'd I'll I'll glass it uh uh you know from one spot for four or five hours.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. I was uh I wanted to know, like I I I think people don't and I'm I'm I'm just now getting into the optics side of things. I usually hunt the brush and I kind of just kick the bushes up and and try and jump on and like I I have my own little style that clearly works sometimes, but probably doesn't work most of the time. So I I've never got into the glassing side. So I was gonna I wanted to know how many hours are you spending? Like what am I getting myself into, or what are people getting themselves into when they say I'm quote unquote glassing.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, yeah. Well, I I think it's a preparation, it's a process where you need to uh you know mentally prepare yourself and uh you know know that that that it's gonna take a lot of time, but also knowing that you have you know having the confidence that there's an animal there and that's what you're looking for. And you know, I've done this with with a lot of animals, antelope, bear. We just got uh buddy and I came back from a moose hunt in Alaska and uh and w w we set up, you know, we didn't move. We found a good high spot, we found uh a couple cows, saw, saw a bull out in the valley, and in the first two days we didn't move. I mean, you know, up there we were starting the glass at seven in the morning, and you know, when it was daylight and finishing about 9.30 at night. Um, this is you know, the mid-September. So two days we didn't move. Um towards the second evening of the last day, um, saw some good bulls a long ways away. Um, called them in and they actually crossed the river at night where we had our decoys and where we were calling, and and I and I killed my bull uh the the next morning, but then we were two more days just glassing, you know, this area. You know, we were glassing animals at over two miles away, and moose are a lot bigger. Um but but we saw a lot of animals, and and the whole key with the glassing, especially with a moose, is you know, finding it. making sure it's legal size, but then also making sure it's in a spot where you can get to it and then recover it once you get it. You know, you're talking about 1800 pounds here. So but but the point is that the the the patience uh of of glassing w were the same there. The the evening my my partner you know got his w we we hadn't moved other than to you know go to the restroom and and grab a sandwich. We hadn't moved from that glassing point for for 14 hours. And uh and he he had a bowl finally ended up coming out where where we'd hoped and where we'd thought one had been and and you know ten minutes before before shooting night was over, you know he he got the biggest bowl of the of the trip for us. But but we sat there and we didn't move because we were confident it could happen right there.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

W what are you what are you doing in your head when you're sitting for two days straight um glassing from the same spot. Like are are you to the point where you don't think about it like you enjoy every moment of it or do you have to play games in your head or to avoid boredom or what what does Scott do glassing for two hours for two days straight?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Well the first thing I do is turn my cell phone off if I'm in cell phone range because that's the only time I'm not that I can just shut things down. That that and being on an airplane my two favorite places to be. So so you know in Alaska was great because there was no cell phone coverage. So when I when I get into that situation no it it's total game mode. You know there there's no the the only second guessing I do at that point is should I be at another place where I know there are big bucks because I know there are other animals out there and it's just a matter of timing. So you know when I'm there and in and it's funny because we were in line the other day it was my wife's birthday and we were in line at the Dutch brothers to get a a coffee and the car ahead of me was just taking forever and I said let's just go somewhere else. She said you're so impatient she said you can sit in a tree stand for 13 hours but you won't wait five minutes for a coffee. And I said it's been like seven minutes, excuse me. But it's different. So you know it is that's what I said and and and and you know it it's back to your question that it's a total mindset and being prepared. You know that that buck last year that I was trying to get you know I I that that was the buck I hunted. I glassed him all season long. I I you know he he was the one I wanted regardless of of what other deer I saw. He was the biggest buck that that I was after. So I had I had all my marbles in one basket. So so my thing with glassing for him and all the time I put into him was was just catching him when he moved and and knowing and it's it's it's exhausting mentally to hunt that way. It's very mentally exhausting because you know rarely do I take a nap in a day because that thing could could be up and moving. You know you might just catch it you know getting up three bed or or a doe might move through that he you know is tagging along. You might see him for two seconds you know at out of glassing for two days or or so. But that's all the confirmation you need to know that he's there. So so I never really I rarely do I second guess myself you know I second guess situations like this buck last year where you know I I you know I was always dreading that someone else maybe killed him and and then when I saw him it's like oh my gosh it was you know to me that was that was just as good as is is almost you know filling the tag. It's like I found him I figured out where he's been betting you know it was a quarter mile from from where I thought he was actually really betting. So so I found kind of his core area which was totally not where I thought it was it was within it was within 30 yards of a road where people dozens of people drive by him every day and he was right there. But no you could see him from that road because it was so protected. So to me that just how smart these animals are and and you know trying to figure them out. So so you know it and that's why good glass is is very important um so you don't get eye fatigue you know setting up to where you mentally know that you know okay hun I'm you know I'm going out hunting I'm gonna be there in daylight I'm gonna be out of touch unless I kill something or something happened and I'll let you know. But other than that, you know I don't want to be contacted emailed or you know anything. So so it's total game mode when you get in into that situation uh you know we're where you've been calling on a deer for that long.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Do you um you clearly enjoy the process of that game mode um versus dreading the game mode yeah because I learned so much yeah from it there's still so much to learn uh fr from these animals you know as an author uh for me anyway an author of hunting and fishing books and how to books is for me the learning never stops so my biggest challenge is knowing when to pull the trigger on writing a book um I had one guy approach gosh he said I know you've taken a lot of bears he said I'd love to write a bear book and and he said why haven't you written one yet?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

And I said well I still have a lot to learn and and he said how many bears have you killed and I said well at this point it was it was around 30 some and I and I said whatever it was and uh he said oh he said oh so I have a long way to go and I said how many have you killed and he said two and I said so you think you have enough knowledge from killing two bears to share with the rest of the world how to hunt bears he said well I thought I did but obviously I don't and I said you know I I I'm not even close to it. And I said I have a lot more you know to go not just the killing aspect which the kill is the success. You know you don't just kill the kill is the is the outcome of it and bear is one of my favorite eating meats and you know our family lives on wild game I guess I should make sure that people you know realize that the only time we buy any any uh commercial meat is if my wife's working on a recipe for a company we just we we just all we eat is wild game so so it's a major part of our life and has been for ever since my wife and I got married moved to Alaska so so y you know what when it looks at what you when when you look at okay you know trying trying to gain the knowledge and the aspect of sharing this information you know that's where it comes back to these long days of glassing where you know I might see that buck I might see five other bucks that day or I might see those I might see the pre-ruck kicking off you know five days earlier than last year and I might see bucks you know starting to cruise horizontal benchlines a lot earlier this year and you know than last year. And for me I'm trying to put together all the pieces of the puzzle you know why is that we had an exceptionally wet spring and early summer so how's that going to affect antler growth this year you know and the food sources what's what's the hunting pressure going to be like what are these flyers going to be like in some of the areas that I'm you know have hunted. And so there are a lot of different factors that go into my mind in terms of of when I'm actually hunting of what I'm trying to decipher and pinpoint and learn from it so that I can be successful and try to help others be successful.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Man I feel like I'm like trying to download all this information right now because you're like just spewing forth like these nuggets of I'm like I I didn't really grow up in a hunting major hunting family all of my black tail adventures and like my learning curves have been literally trial and error and mostly error. And I've gotten lucky a couple times but I've like the black tail things right around the corner of black tail one of the things you think about on your thing that I think there's other spot but I know there's a trail here there's a trail there and there's a time when you what what how what's your decision making process on changing areas?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

You know a lot of it comes down to uh you know to what I'm seeing with other deer in the area at that time and uh you know what what the dough movement is like. You know if I'm catching any cougars on my trail camera that'll shut down a a big buck for you know three or four days until that cat moves out of there. You know if there are if there are hunters walking right through the unit or or you know the timber patch where I think that the buck is betting where I'm at that I'm gonna move right away. Again, you know I always have multiple places where I know I can go if something goes bad or or not the way I've planned in in in my other hunting areas. So my backup plans you know are they they're they're always there and and and you know the the hard part is knowing when to move you know because a a lot of what I do depends on you know what the wind is doing in an area where I can get in position you know uh trying to glass a a single area or of what I think is a buck's core area you know from multiple places. You know it's a crazy crazy thing when you are at the top of a hill or you say you're midway up a hill and you think you're seeing the whole picture of what's there and you hike another you know 400 feet up the hill and it opens up a whole new window of visibility of where this you know where these animals could potentially be or where you might be able to catch them moving. So you know I I I use a lot of information from my trail cameras um to to try to dictate where where it is I'm going uh or you know maybe should be going where I'm looking again I never when the season's here I I I never go looking for a new place to hunt.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

I I know that I have multiple places I I know where there are multiple bucks um out there and again the summer scouting is is huge you know when you find out uh where these bucks are and it gives you the confidence you know these aren't these aren't migratory deer unless you're hunting way up high you know in the Cascades uh you know they're they're gonna be there all rifle season and and you know most of the mo you know through through through the Thanksgiving time frame for the most part um I had I don't know if there's an epiphany or like I'm kind of realizing that the things you're talking about I mean you mentioned material camera information uh weather information wind information um and other predator like predator information in the area pressure uh cougar pressure or whatever it might be and human pressure and fires and things like that. And I don't know if that was weird to put it in these terms but I'm hearing that like your knowledge of like how the natural world works in the sense of like information based hunting. And the more information that you get from um trail cameras and and the weather and all these different things that th that information is helping you make a the most educated decision when you're in the field in the Yeah absolutely yeah hunting is not a guessing game.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

And you know if you're driving down the road from point A to point B and you see a a big buck and and you know you get out and whether or not you kill him or not fact is you've located a big buck. And if it's the price check you you know you you better stop right there and closely analyze why that buck was there. A big mature black tail buck five to ten eleven years old is never going to be anywhere by mistake unless he's chasing a dough and rut and crosses the road and gets you know hammered that way. But they're they're very intentional in their movements um betting feeding uh you know traveling to and and from those areas so if you find a buck or shoot a big buck you know stop right there and analyze and try to figure out why that buck was right there. Why was he on why was he even on that specific trail? You know was it a secondary trail was it a primary trail? Was he moving horizontally across the ridge or was he moving up and down which you know two different reasons of movement there you know when when you get a move in you know those directions you know what was the barometric pressure pressure like what was you know was there a full moon out was there a lot of hunting pressure what was the wind doing what are the food sources was there a creek in the bottom was it a dry area you know just analyze anything and everything because ultimately that that's what's going to teach you about where these animals are at when where and why um it you know it's not just wow I you know filled a tag here and you know we'll go somewhere else next year. Most of the big bucks my family has killed for gosh my wife's side of the family has been living right here in outside of Springfield up along the McKenzie River since the 18 you know 1850s 1860s here. So you know they've been hunting black tail deer that long and and it you know back then of course everything was meat hunting they did they could care less about antler size but but here over the last you know hunting closely with my family over the last 40 some years that w a a lot of the big bucks we've killed has become three four five six years in a row in the same exact area. And I'm a firm believer that big bucks require very specific needs and once you kill a big buck out of an area another one will will be right back in there the very next season there. So don't dismiss that you know I another thing I do uh um you know I've been playing around with baits more with with and sands uh I've developed a waterproof uh deer and it's taken me a couple years to develop but we're we we should be releasing that here this season uh with that so so I do a lot with stuff and feed just to try to feed see where these animals are at. I do a lot once they sh uh shed their antlers. I uh I um raise and train uh poodle pointers so it my fascination with that breed w has largely the to do with their ability to find shed eggs. You know I'll go out with with my dogs and I'll I'll find more blacktail sheds in a day than I would have found in you know three years hunting just by myself on foot because they're finding where these animals, you know, where these bucks at that time of year are are living in the winter and you know usually that's their core area for lower elevation bucks and and it's a real eye opener to how many antlers are really out there that these that these dogs are finding.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

I bet well I mean you know you're you're saying that we're kind of talking about this whole information picture and you I think you started out the podcast by saying that like some of the best hunters we've ever hunted with hunters because they understand what they're doing as every aspect of healthcare healthcare and aspect of the thing from my analysis to me it's random because I'm random I'm the random person like they know what they're doing. They live there every day day day in and day out and during the night. And so I should be asking myself even if I don't get close to that animal even if I cross the uh the draw like a mile or two I should be asking myself why why that animal is there in the first place because it's not by accident.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah that's right and and you're exactly right and that's why I like you know trying to spot animals from a long ways away you know they don't know you're there. You know with with today's high quality optics you know you can watch these animals for hours and you know learn from them and try to figure out you know what what's going on there. You know look at what the wind is doing there uh you know in that situation and and and try to figure it out and you know just just always piecing things together. My wife loves to hike she does a lot of hiking and and things like that. So you know when she's out on hikes and she hunts too. So when she goes out on these trail hikes she loves like going through the forest hiking and doing all that stuff. So she'll always come back you know with reports I you know saw you know these deer here and you know there were this many and you know bucks and does and they were in velvet and I saw these tracks here and you know so there so there's always you know always information whether you're hunting or whether you're just hiking in the off season or uh you know looking to learn more about hunting. You don't necess necessarily have to you know you're you don't have to have a rifle or bow in your hand to be hunting. You know I I killed a buck uh gosh I think it was two seasons ago I got a nice buck opening day and uh someone said well that was fast it and and I said well no it wasn't really fast because I've been you know I I found this buck shed you know in Janu in uh February I said you know I had trail cameras set up for him all spring I said I started scouting for him in July started setting trail cameras out for him you know in July and August so I really had about 60 hours into this buck before I pulled the trigger so really it didn't happen fast even though I held my tag on opening day. What's the longest you've monitored a single buck for that you're wanting to go after um you know there there was a a buck I got with my bo a couple years ago um I don't know maybe three years ago now um had over I had over a thousand trail cam shots of him a lot of video um over about a mile and a half square area and uh and I I never saw him in daylight not one time but I I just kept getting closer and kept pushing and kept pushing and and uh I hunted him for three years he was never going to be anything bigger than a three point uh it yeah but he was just he was a big body deer to this day he's still the biggest body black tail he was he was um he was just over 200 pounds about 216 pounds which for a buck down here you know Washington gets bitter bigger bodied bucks than than we do but for a a valley buck uh a valley floor buck down here that was that was a gigantic uh blacktail so so where things turned there was rarely this is about a little less than 500 feet elevation on the on the um McKinsey River valley floor here and and um where things changed there you know I was bow hunting it was it was the late season so I'd hunted them in the early season no luck this was the late season and and a couple days before Thanksgiving we got really cold weather and I love the cold weather um and I love hunting in the rain for black tails and a lot of people say well the cold weather turned the red on I don't I think the red is more more dictated by photoperiodism than it is temperature but I think what the cold temperature does is it allows these bucks that overheat so easily to move a lot more and stay cool. So so that's why I like hunting cold temperatures in the rain. So so we had temperatures like 16 degrees then it warmed up a little bit then it snowed and then it froze again yeah and it it made for really it was terrible hunting conditions um but what what I what I did is I got out in glass I didn't see anything everything was pretty much locked down it was like 16 degrees the day before Thanksgiving but it froze all this snow and it was great. So middle of the day when I knew everything was bedded then I went tromping through the snow and just what I was seeing where these deer were moving and where their tracks were and you know how many times they get up and and bed down during the course of the day and just it you know it it I knew that they did that but it was really an education me for this area where this buck was I saw a lot of uh you know double tracks and and you know those bucks with those big swollen necks and their weight forward you know because their necks are so heavy uh that time of year during the run I I knew that these things were still running in this area and in this area I rip I've taken a lot of bucks from Thanksgiving to like December 2nd I've called and rattled quite a few bucks so so I went back out Thanksgiving morning didn't see anything um uh hunted hunted pretty much all day um and uh came in from another area where because that buck was he was I hadn't seen him on trail camera or seen this buck for about two weeks and that's fairly common during the middle of October and that's between the first and second or November I'm sorry and that's between you know the first and second rut. So after the first rut a lot of big bucks a leader just hole up and lick their wounds or they'll they'll you know start cruising looking for does that they're you know maybe been miss being bred in that in that first rut. So so that's where I thought this buck was. Well I I moved about a mile and a half down the ridge and thinking okay maybe he's down low I I I was basically keeping track of does and I was wanting him I I at this time I'm always looking for does in November. So um got set up on on um on some bait that I'd had out there attracting that I've been working on called Deer Now and something I developed for black tails and here comes a a doe out of the woods and I can see something chasing behind her but there was a lot of briars and I couldn't tell what it was and and outsteps this buck and you know he is 70 75 yards away and holy cow my heart just went in my throat because I I just realized that this is my third year of hunting this buck and the first time I'd ever seen him in daylight. And you know I was just I I was just so elated you know and then she came in and and uh something spooked her. I don't know what it was in the blind or what but she she got 50 yards from me and just just tore out of there fast as could be and the buck stopped and we looked at her and he looked at the feed and looked at her and put his head down and came right into the feed and I got him at whatever 22 yards or whatever it was. But uh so that showed that you know that he he was interested in this dome but he was more interested in recovering from from the rut. And I find that a lot with big bucks I I think a lot of the big mature bucks are are not active during the second run If it's an easy dough for them to breed, they'll do it. If it's competition with other bucks, they won't fight. If there's food there, a lot of times their stomach overrules the you know the desired or the chance that they might have with breeding a dough because they know that winter's coming up. We have very cold conditions. This, you know, these bucks have burned all their fat off. So my thought was in his mind, he's going to be looking for food because it's been so cold and he needs to put the fat on and he knows it. And and it paid off. I had you know a 10-minute window, five-minute window to make it happen, and it connected. But I but I had over 125 actual hunting hours for that, for that buck. And I don't know how many more scouting hours I had uh in that thing. So well well over 200 hours just for that one buck.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

And that's what I think that's what I think people need to like that. I I'm starting to to understand. I have this I have this idea of going out and getting it over with. And here I'm I'm listening to you being like, man, this guy really I love black dead hunting. Like he's spending this much time, this much energy, and he's uh understanding the animal that he's hunting to the point where you're always like you're constantly learning. Like, so uh I'm trying to in my head while you're talking, I'm like, man, how can I take this on the to like where I've been hunting? I I I found this spot that I got successful in the first season I got to it. And uh in the la in the last couple of seasons, um like you're talking about the snow, and and I'm starting to, without mentally like actively trying to do it, I've started to try and put the pieces of the puzzle together, like why are these animals coming out of this one draw in the snow? And they always seem to be coming out of this like these little fingers reading going across this bench. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, okay, cool. I need to start asking myself like why these animals are doing that at this time of year. And I need to get some trail cameras in there. I need to start doing some some biology on like how these animals are what they're eating and why they're doing it. Because uh what you're telling me is like the more information the better. And I get I'm wondering, should I keep going back to that spot? And it sounds like I should because I'm building myself a picture so I can be more intentional about where I'm going and how I'm how I'm going about it.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, in the book I wrote, you know, I titled it Trophy Blacktails, The Science of the Hunt, because that's how I approach it. It's it's it's like a scientific study, like you said. You're you know, you're learning the biology of those animals out there, and and that's what makes black tails so difficult. I mean, how you hunt them, you know, uh on the coast range or the valley floor, the foothills, or the you know, high in the cascades, you know, uh the the movement of bucks in Washington or you know, up 25 to 4,500 feet elevation are much different than the movement of bucks here in Oregon. Um, you know, and then you look at some of the the big giant black tails in in Northwest California, which are you know, they're there's pure black tails as is you know the bucks on San Juan Island. They just have different, you know, different genetics and and uh you know they they have a lot uh a lot different food sources down there and a lot more open country. So so they can grow different antler configurations. So you know, you you look at all the different habitats where these things can can be hunted in. And you know, I have people all the time asking me, hey, have this situation with the black tailed buck, how do I, you know, how can I kill them? And like, holy cow, I I need to talk to you on the phone for about an hour to figure out what what what it is you're up against before I can even come close to think about answering that question. But but but let's give yours a shot. So what's your scenario? What elevation are you hunting and when are you seeing these deer move?

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Um I want to say so it's late November. I've I've been successful in late November. Um I think that that's considered the rut up up here. Um the big bucks are moving. It's uh it's a long finger where there's there's you know young trees and then on the top and then um thicker growth in the bottom, like you're not gonna want to go down in there. So they uh and but if you do, you're gonna find these different game trails that come right up over this knob. And it goes for you can hike for uh a couple of m miles and you you're gonna have this like kind of transition area from one side to the next. It's right uh elevation-wise. I want to say it's uh it's probably right around like uh 4,000 feet. It's the awesome northwest cloud layer because I'm always battling uh these uh clouds moving in and ruining my day and then uh waiting for a gap. You know, so it it's so funny. If I go down the hill just a little bit, you know, I can glass for uh uh for for days, but if I go up to this this ridge where these bucks come across, they uh man, they're like it depends on the cloud layer. I can continue or I can't. So uh I started setting myself up on these. Because I can't glass, I have a couple spots that I do that. Um, I set it up on the trail where I know they're gonna come up out of this trail. And I actually caught a massive body of a buck on the second to last day of the season a couple seasons ago. And he came out, I mean it was like freezing cold, I was miserable, the wind's whipping, and this dude comes out of this drawing just like I was getting up to leave because I needed to warm up, and he comes out, and my it was so cold it got the the my rifle didn't go off. I mean it was it wasn't feeding the the pin wasn't hitting the firing cap the right way. And it I I I blew the deer out because I I I put my rifle down, I'm like, I can't I can't shoot you and just stood there and went back the next morning and it was a different buck. It was heartbreaking, man. It was the worst day of my life. But at the same time, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, well, okay, you win. I get to watch this beautiful animal against this beautiful landscape um for a few minutes.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Yeah, what did he do? Let me there and how how long did he stick around?

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Um he he came in, he I mean I had enough time to troubleshoot my bolt action rifle, pulled rounds out, re-feed him, and I probably shot the thing nine times over. Um and he stood there. So he was probably in there for a few minutes. And he came out, he was in wide open, he came out on the trail where he's kind of I'd seen some go tracks, and I think it was a trans it was one of those transition corridors. So he came up out of this hill because I the next morning I tracked him back down where he came from. And uh so he came up out of this deep dark timber up and over the transition corridor, and he stood there and taught me. He was he was looking right at me. And it was nine o'clock in the morning. I remember it was nine o'clock because I had to go to the bathroom and I I was freezing cold. I've been sitting there and so I got up, he came in, I caught you know, caught my eye, and he came in at we were 30 yards away from each other, and he was just staring at me and then realized he was like, okay, not cool, I'm just gonna walk away. The next morning I'm like, I'm never gonna see this guy ever again, and I I didn't. But a younger buck came in the last day of the season and right around the same area, he kind of came from this a different spot. But um that's kind of the situation, and uh and I'm like, man, okay, this is a transition corridor, so it's kind of high alpine-like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Yeah, no, it and and that time of year. So yeah, and that's neat. And it's amazing, you know, even though you didn't get to shoot that buck, you got to watch them for a while. I do a lot of work for for magazines and and uh some different companies and uh and so forth. It and it's amazing when you're not trying to kill an animal, how long you can actually watch it. That's one thing I find with a lot of hunters, as soon as they see an animal, they get in a hurry-up mode and they're like, hurry up, we gotta kill before it gets away. You know, if that animal, and that's why I like spotting them from a long ways away, because I want to be the one in control of the speed at which I'm moving. You know, if I have to run and try to hurry to get an animal or you know, an animal has busted me and I'm playing catch up, you know, the chances of of of connecting, you know, great, you know, dwindle greatly. But but you know, if if you know you were in a perfect situation there, and and you know, it sounds to me that that's a high elevation hunt that late in the season. So it you know, uh obviously bucks will be migrating out of that area. Um that 4,500 foot mark, those those deer will usually start, you know, usually start moving pretty good around there. And then you know, if you have a high concentration of does that are in that area, or if they're funneling into an area like this, um, you know, like you'd mentioned late November, that's that that's that's a prime time to you know to be capitalizing on the rut as well as as you know um migration. So, you know, I I'd I'd be you know, if you know those animals are there and it's thick and it's foggy or something like that, I wouldn't be afraid to call and rattle. I do a lot of calling and rattling.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Yeah, I was actually I was thinking about that. And in fact, I I watched one of your black tail um you know calling videos years ago, I think, and and I was like, that's one thing I need to add to the repertoire. It's like there's all these different foggy little nooks and crannies that I I know these bucks are in here. Um I'm gonna start putting up trail cameras and I'm like, I'm gonna start rattling and and like maybe I'll screw it up, but maybe I get that one that's like, hey buddy, what's going on? comes out and it's gonna be a close shot, man. I mean it's it's not gonna be uh a hundred yards, it's probably gonna be forty.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah, no, that's good. Gosh, I've we've shot them inside five yards, we would rattle them and pick stuff. So yeah, it's uh you know, where you're going in with a muzzle loader or uh, you know, even an iron sight gun. So no, it's don't if it's real thick stuff. It's uh no shots inside ten yards can be can be very very common uh if you're rattling them thick.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Do you think that this do you think these bucks are transitioning over this ridge? Like it looks like they come down, like there's a couple fingers that go down into these steep drainages. Do you think that they they're coming up out of these drainages? They live down there and they come up for the does and they go back down, or because it seems like they're living down in there and then they come out.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yeah, probably. Was there much snow in there?

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah, yeah. It it it's crazy, and that's one thing a lot of people think that you know, oh, it's snowing up in the hills, the deer are gonna move out. It it's crazy how much snow uh a black tail can endure. And in some of the the trail camera studies they've done on migratory black tail here in Oregon, both in the north and south end, you know, they find that the migration starts the the same time every year, whether there's you know two feet of snow or no snow at all. So so a black tail migration is a lot different than you know than like a mule migration. Um so so you know, if though if those bucks are down in those thickets and it and is it kind of a bench up where you're on where those things are at coming up too?

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Yeah, so so buffs love bedding and and what uh you know in in the thickest stuff, but but when they're cruising for does during this you know early November and late November time frame, they love hitting those ridge lines and traveling horizontally. Basically they're just trail check. Um you know, they're looking for doughs, but usually it's so thick, they're just trail checking to see, you know, they're running these primary trails that are you know uh connecting a dough's bedding and feeding area, and seeing it, you know, they're just smelling the urine basically, seeing what the ester's levels are. And if there's a dough that you know has high estrogen levels, then he's just gonna smell her track. They they track each other by the interdigital gland in their in their hoof. So, you know, and all all all split-tote ungulates have it. So, so you know, boom, there there's the scent, boom, there's what her track smells like, and then he'll just be following her on that trail. But but rarely do will you know if you see a buck on a primary trail that time of year, he's probably on a dough. There's a hot dough that he's after. Um if you find him, you know, crossing these trails and maybe traveling a you know a short a short ways on the trail, then hopping off and going somewhere else, then then he's looking for a dough in that area. That time of year, all my hunting, you know, I I know there are again, hopefully you know that there are bucks in those areas, but uh but I'm physically trying to find does because I know from that that October you know 27th, 28th, 29th time frame, um, all the way to December 2nd. If you see a dough, there's a chance a buck could be with it.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Oh my gosh. You're getting me like super excited to go back in this area. Like it it's hunting season's like literally right around the corner, and I'm like, okay, I'm doing it right. Like that just like I'm getting all excited now. Scott.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Oh, you're getting close, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

It is. It's right around the corner. I mean, uh I could literally talk your ear off or listen to you talk at least for for hours.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

Uh well we'll have to sign up and do another one again.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Yeah, I need like we need to do like Sc Scott's like coaching calls for young, inexperienced hunters.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

That's what I love doing. That's what that's what it's about. It's about helping people. And you know, for years I did TV and you know, I've done all the writing like we'd talked about, and and it's interesting. Our show, the hunt, I did several shows for the outdoor channel over the years, and I mentioned Wolf Creek Productions, and they were they were great. You know, when I first got into TV, you know, 15 years ago, um, you know, there were about 80 of us out there that had TV shows. There weren't that many, and and everything was based on on educating people, you know, about the hunt and capturing the you know what what the essence of the hunt was about. And now there are over 800 um hunting shows out there on networks. And I I don't even know what there is on the on the internet and all that, but but with that with that shift and that much saturation of a market, it you know, outdoor hunting TV shows were were set up to struggle from the beginning. Because number one, here here the networks were making money because because we have to buy our time into those networks. You know, the the real TV, the way real TV works is you know, networks, or Netflix, ABC, MBC, they see something, they'll they'll pay someone for those shows to shoot and produce those shows, or they'll do it themselves. We'll call it an in-house production. And you know, they're paying up front for that. With outdoor TV, you're paying for that. So you're buying your airtime, and then you have to get your sponsors as well. You know, when I got out of, well, in the height of TV, it was, you know, it it for outdoor channel, it was a million dollars, you know, just to even get it in the game, um, you know, to to buy your airtime and then and then to cover your costs and hopefully make a few dollars. So when TV shifted from an from an educational platform to now all these um, you know, uh shows out there competing for for eyeballs, you know, the the and and now and now that we have TiVo where people can you know whiz through the commercials, you know, it's a battle for sponsors and it's a battle for advertisers, and and that's how you that's what you have to do to make money. So so you know, you you you watch a TV show 15 years ago and there were six or eight sponsors on it. Now you watch a TV show and they're at 30. And there has to be for those people to keep those, you know, those shows afloat. It's a very, very tough platform to to make money on. And and I I got out of it uh what four years ago because I could see the the light at the end of the tunnel, and and frankly, the TV industry just wasn't it wasn't fun for me anymore. It sh it changed from an educational platform to uh to an entertainment plat platform, and and to me, hunting is not entertainment. To me, honey is is education. Yep and and that's just a person how I feel. And and and recently, last in February, our our show The Hunt, which is the first show that I produced and and um and hosted, I did that for three years for the Sportsman's channel. Well, it it recently got picked up by Netflix. And you know, Netflix blows any outdoor network away so exponentially large, it's not even it's it's not even in the same ball game. And it's been great for me to to you know personally and professionally, um, to for so many reasons. But number one is it's reaching what the industry refers to as that elusive 80%. In other words, 10% of us um hunt and fish, we're always gonna hunt and fish, regardless of what happens in the world. 10% of the people will never hunt and fish, and this is you know, you know, uh just a rough figure. It could be 11%, it could be 9% on any given year or what whatever. So roughly 10% of the uh of the country never will hunt and fish, they're they're they're anti, they're against it, um, and you couldn't talk them into it no matter how much you reason with them, and that's fine, that's their choice. But there are eight that means there's eighty percent of the population out there that is on the fence. And they're they're you know, it might be the hikers, it might be the locales, it might be the you know, someone that picked up the magazine in an airport and thought, gosh, you know, I would love how to learn how to hunt a deer and you know, skin it out and cook, you know, this free range venison myself, or tie a fly and you know, go out and and learn how to fish a stream myself. So so Netflix is reaching those 80% of the people. And me, you know, being an educator, you know, first and and someone who's fortunate to spend all this time out in the field and learning and and sharing that with people, uh I've been really uh I I guess there's there's been a new lie lit uh thanks to Netflix and what they've provided. That said, if I was to you know, had I known this is going to happen, you know, when I shot and produced these shows, they've been done for three years before Netflix picked up the first season last year, I would have shot them totally different for the Netflix crowd. But if Netflix likes them, the ratings are are off the hook, and and and I I get dozens, sometimes hundreds of emails a day from people around the world, uh, you know, commenting about it, asking questions about it, and and it comes back to to what you're doing and you know, with your program you have going here, and uh it it you know, people want to learn, and it and if it can be done in a non-threatening, non-chest beating, non-competitive way, that's the future of of hunting, and that's the that's what we have to do to get to get people interested in what the outdoors are all about.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:16

That I'm so glad you got to talk you you took a minute to talk about that Netflix show. And I know like I when I found out about it, I'm like, oh man, I gotta I gotta start watching these things. I I'm I'm the I'm excited, man. Everything you just said is like everything like gets to me to my core, and I'm like, we're on the same page, man. I so thanks for doing that. Thanks for taking that um that like torch and running with it about the education. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

No, thanks. It's uh yeah, time time's short, and and yeah, it's uh it's one of those opportunities you just you know seize the moment and just keep moving forward and hopefully the best happened with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

So cool, man. I love it. Where can uh to wrap it up, where can people find you at and find the show and what's their best method?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

You know, or uh the the the show it's called The Hunt. Uh and there are a couple other shows on there, I think, called The Hunt. And there's a movie called The Hunt, and National Geographic, or someone just came out with a show called The Hunt that David Attenborough uh um narrates. So so if you go to Netflix and then and then just look up the hunt, uh I think I think um my series picture is uh Heard of Wildebees drinking at a water hole. You'll find season one, added season two this last uh what September 30th. So season two is up there now. So you have uh what 26 full episodes. Uh season one was a little rough. We were you know kind of learning the ropes with the new production crew and and uh camera crew and so forth. Season two, we we got dialed in and um and stepped things up a notch. So I like personally I like the quality of season two um better. But you know, I have my family in there, my dad's involved in some shows, um my boys, my wife as well, you know, involved in there. We we do a lot of teaching, you know, probably you know, of course, you know, the the you get the hate mail and the death threats. That's that's a that's a regular part of what it what we do, and and and I I'm fine with that. I'm still alive and and I still communicate with those people. I mean my wife just says, don't waste time email emailing these people. It's like, you know, it's a it's an opportunity to to educate them and shed light on it, you know. Yeah, you'll get a comment, you know, I hope someone kills you, and if I ever see you, I'll kill you. And you know, it's like, well, actually, I'm hunting leak this these game animals legally, and our family lives on it, and it's against the law to kill a human. You know, so you know, you'll come back with art algae like that, and they'll say, So you eat the bear that you shot? It's like, yeah, bear's one of my favorite animals to eat, and that's that's why we kill it. We render the fat, and they said we use all parts of it. And they're like, Wow, I didn't know that. You know, thanks and sorry. So so you know, you get that, or you know, the the my biggest headache that I deal with are hunters that that that bash me, honestly. It's it's it's they're just relentless. And I mean they they'll beat you down and they criticize you, and you'll try to reason with you, and you know, the well, they they just try to they so often they try to one-up you right now. And and and it's it's that that's not what hunting is. Hunting, and I think TV is largely to blame for that with with its with its in social media. Yeah, um you know, again, hunting is a very delicate thing to to accurately portray what we do and why we do it. And y you know, sure it's fun to post pictures of of animals you get and share success stories, but but how you got to that and what you're doing with that animal is to me that's you know, that's the important part. And and and I just try to relay, you know, the fact that people can things that they can still get out there themselves and do it and and I try to promote that. But uh but yeah, our our show is there on Netflix. You can look at season one, season two. My website is being rebuilt right now, but it's uh It's still active. It's just Scott Haugen.com. I did start a small booking service with the with the TV shows that a lot of people say, gosh, you know, I've I've never, you know, uh I'm at a stage in my life where, you know, I I'm retiring or I have the financial means. I want to go on a guided hunt and learn how to do this. Uh you know, so so I start a little booking service. So I so I do some you know things like that around the world. Um, you know, I'm pretty active on Facebook, not as good as I should be at it, but uh pretty active. And then any just my name's Scott Halgan, people can look up there and they can order our books online as well on my website there. So autograph copies we we sell off of our website. And with this new uh website that I'm developing, I'll have my new Deer Year in there, and then I'll have uh product called Deer Now. It's a black tail attractant that I helped develop and we'll have a few products there as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

So that's awesome. I love it. That is a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Well, yeah, yeah, that and you know, then and then I'm on the road a lot this time of year, so it's uh yeah, it all comes together. But you know, something that stands out in my mind, you know, we're we were talking earlier about the black tail and and you know, the guy that I ran into last year with a four-wheeler that you know kind of botched that hunt. And you know, I I I'm very fortunate because I'll I do this for a living. So, you know, during the height of my TV career, when I I was hosting two different shows, so 50 uh 26 episodes for each show, 52 episodes a year, and they were all hunting. So, you know, I was going on 60, 65 big game hunts a year, and I still I'm still out in the field 260, you know, days a year, sometimes more, um, whether I'm scouting, taking photographs, you know, whatever it is I'm doing, hunting, um, fishing. So, you know, when I'm out there and I'm on the hunt, you know, it I don't have trouble back to what we talked about, you know, sitting behind a spotting scope twelve hours a day. Because because that's my job, and and and I love it, and and I have the time to do it. And my whole goal is I I know that you know that most people don't have that luxury. So my whole goal is to try to learn, come back, you know, uh encapsulate this information and put it into a in into a format where someone can say, okay, I at least know where I need to start. I only have the weekends to hunt, but at least I know where I can get out there and what I need to be doing differently to to start hunting. And that's the whole goal at all this is just to to share the experience with others and and let you know have them truly believe that they can get out there and do it themselves.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

Yeah, man. Well, Scott, thank you so much. I appreciate the time spent. And uh I I hope we get to talk again um another time because this is just too good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

Yeah, you bet, but anytime keep up the good work and uh keep flying the flag because we live in a great place. We're very blessed to have all the opportunities that we do have out there as Americans in the world of hunting and fishing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

I love it. Thanks, Scott.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Thank you for tuning in. I know I learned a ton from Scott, and a special thanks to Scott. He came on and was so gracious and giving all that information away. You can clearly tell that Scott is passionate about what he does and he takes it extremely seriously. He lives in the backcountry, lives for hunting and uh educating people. So hit him up on uh his website and his TV show on Netflix. And if you have any questions for me, hit me up at emorymor y at byland.co. Go to my website at www.byland.co. Subscribe to the newsletter. If you like this episode, do me a favor and write a review and rate it so I can reach more people. And I'll see you next time.