SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome to the Bioline Podcast. My name is Demory. This is episode two, and I'm here to help you have a better backcountry experience. Whatever that means, hiking, hunting, backpacking, it doesn't matter. We're all here to get better. That's what this podcast is about. On today's episode, I have Josh Kirchner from Dialed in Hunter. I've been talking to Josh for a couple of years now on Instagram, and I have not actually had an opportunity to sit down with him, at least on Skype or in person, to talk to him one-on-one about what he's passionate about. Him and I are very similar in that we're just trying to get better and explain the delicate intricacies of what we do. So Josh agreed to come on. He wrote this article recently on dialedinhunter.com about disconnecting when you go into the mountains. And it's funny because I was having this same struggle, whether it was on the PCT or in previous adventures hunting, where I would go into the mountains, I'd look forward to it all year long, and then get out there and wish I was home with my family and friends or whatever it was. I had this same struggle on the PCT. Josh happened to write about it shortly after I got back or right around the time I was ending my trail. So I thought it'd be a great idea to bring him on to talk about it. So here's Josh Kirchner. Enjoy the episode. Thanks for tuning in. Josh, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. We we're like long overdue for this conversation. And the great thing about this new podcast thing is that I get to actually reach out to people and talk to people for have a reason to do so.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

So yeah, yeah, no, we've uh we've been chatting for like a couple years.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah. I was actually looking thinking about that earlier. Uh I'm like, well, when did I start the website? Oh, like two years ago. I probably reached out to this dude like two years ago. Holy cow. Yeah, you did, yeah. Take a second, like introduce yourself, like tell me what like Dialden Hunter is and like what you're all about, and then we'll kind of go into like your recent post.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Okay. Um, well, my name is Josh Kirchner. Um, I live in Arizona. Uh, like a lot of folks out there. Um I was introduced to the whole hunting, fishing, outdoors thing from my dad. Um lived in New York for the first pretty much first eight years of my life, and and out there it wasn't like I had never even seen a mountain before. Like I didn't I didn't know any of that. Um, we did quite a bit of fishing and everything. So when we decided to move to Arizona, my dad kept getting these magazines, like air it was there's a uh magazine called Arizona Highways, and I would look at that thing religiously, and I very, very soon I was dreaming about like largemouth bass and mule deer and elk and everything, and I had never been out west ever before, you know. Well, I mean, I was born in New Mexico, but I don't remember that. So um, so that kind of like lit the fire in me to like all this is like a whole new world, you know. Like coming out here, I couldn't believe um the scenery, like driving around town, there's mountains around the city and stuff. I had never seen that before. So then um, you know, I went on my first hunt when I was nine, I think. I remember being like super scared, and um never I had never slept outside before. Um so that was a pretty unique experience. Like we had elk come through the camp in the middle of the night, and you could like feel the ground shaking and stuff, you know, just like awesome. But I I could go on with that for that stuff for hours, but anyways, fast forward um about five years ago now, four or five years ago, I just really, really like jumped into the whole hunting thing, like dove in headfirst. Like before that, you know, it was like uh you know, like your yearly deer camp with dad. You know? Yeah. But but but I never really like extended it past that, you know, like it was like one and done until next year. And then when I chose to to just jump into this, I just became obsessed with it, you know. Um a huge driving factor for me to to start hunting was um health. You know, I started caring it like caring more about like what I was putting in my body and the foods I was eating, and I'm like, hey, you know, like you know, I've been doing this hunting thing for a while, like I why why not do it you know for food on another scale, you know, not just about like getting out with dad, which which that's awesome, but I just kind of wanted to to uh you know d dive headfirst into the providing for myself, if you would, like out there, and um so throughout that experience I re I quickly realized how difficult it was to come across like really good info f specifically geared towards beginners. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like and and on top of that, geared towards western hunting, like like the majority of stuff that you find out there online is really all geared towards whitetail hunting, which cool man, you know what that that's awesome. Those guys do their thing, but the whole western thing, I feel like guys are way more secretive about stuff out here because a lot of the stuff out here we're dealing with public land, which is a blessing, um but because it's public land, I mean it's all competition, you know, you get you you're under competition basically. So I decided, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna write about my kind of journey into like really diving into this hunting thing, and maybe I can help people out that are maybe the same level as me, below where I'm at, knowledge-wise, and and inspire them that and to let them know that like you know what? Like if you're sitting there and you and a deer walks by and you're so shaken up that you can't even lift up your bow, that's normal. Totally, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, if and and on the flip, if you go out and you don't see anything, that's normal. Okay, and like I because I feel like like I don't know about you, but I like I grew up like watching a lot of outdoor TV, you know, and I mean they're great, okay, but like the dude sits there for five minutes, a buck walks in, and he and you know, he shoots the deer.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Dude, I've had the same exact struggle with that, like not really having to I I was stopped enjoying it because I'm like, I I don't see anything. This this is not like TV, so what am I right, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

And I feel like it gives the wrong message to younger, like specifically younger folks that are getting into all this, is because it's it comes across as almost like super discouraging, man. Like when you go out there, it's like, why can't I do that? You know, these guys sit there and like maybe I just am an awful hunter, you know, and I just really don't know what I'm doing. But I'm telling you, what they're not showing you is the six days before that, or whatever, that they sat there and they and they didn't see anything. Or or they only saw small bucks, or you know what I mean? Like, or they missed. You know, like so um I just thought it was a cool thing. I wanted to be real with people, you know, and and you know, I I've never ever claimed to be an expert at any of this, and I feel like I'm pretty upfront about that, and I think that that's why people a lot of people resonate with the articles that I write, is because they're there too. You know, like they're hearing this from a person that is just a normal dude, like I have a normal job, I pay bills, you know, and I have to take time off to go hunting and everything like that, you know. Um so yeah, I mean that's basically I didn't even say the name of my blog. My blog my blog is so my blog's called Dialed in Hunter, okay, and um that that's pretty much what it is, man. Like my journey into like this like hardcore, it's become like this like hardcore hunting adventure that I is like non-stop for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Dude, well, I remember when I came across your Instagram account and then I checked out your website, I'm like, dude, I think this guy's like uh like exactly how I'm viewing things, and so I think I'm kind of trying to do the same thing, like fully transparent, like don't know everything. Yeah, this is what I do know, and take it or leave it, but teach me as well, you know. Like, because I didn't grow up in a massive hunting family, like out west, dude, like in Washington, you go out for elk season and it's like massive elk camp. I mean, it's like yeah, the whole city goes into the mountains, and you're like, I don't know who these guys are, they've been hunting the hills for years, and I'm like, uh yeah, that was not me. I'm still trying to find spots, and I have I'm literally trial and error. Sure, sure. So here's here's my trial and error, and here's what I have learned, because I I need to at least the same thing, like there's no I felt like there was no information of like step one, you're interested in hunting, step five, you're hunting. And there's no like well what happened to the middle steps. So yeah, man, I mean that's why I I've that's why I've enjoyed your blog and and your your transparency. Um so you okay, so I hiked the PCT this last year, and you wrote this article about disconnecting and like this weird give and take of like you really want to at least how I perceived it was you really want to go outside, but you really when you're out there, you're you kind of feel this weird like tug back home. And I felt that so many times on the trail, just like I could go into it for for probably hours, but you wrote this article, and I was like, dude, yes, finally someone else is talking about like this weird feeling. So can you quick can you like talk about this article that you wrote about disconnecting and kind of the why you wrote it? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So um ever since I like got into like really got into all this stuff, um, especially um bear like bear hunting and stuff like that, like that's kind of my thing. I I I do not discriminate. I hunt all types of animals, but bears are just kind of my thing. Um I was on a bear hunt uh let me see, it's about four, it was my first bear hunt, it was four years ago. And I was out there for eight days alone. Um yeah, no, and wasn't seeing anything. Uh well well, I was seeing tons of deer and stuff, but I wasn't seeing any bears. And I kept talking to my wife, you know, and I'm like, oh god, like I I think I'm gonna come home. Because like when you when you get to the state mentally where you're at a block wall, I feel like the natural instinct is you want to go home.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

You know what I mean? Because it's like, oh god, like I I yeah, why am I out here? You know what I mean? Like I could be at home hanging out with my wife or you know, at work, whatever, you know, whatever. You know, you know, whatever it is. Well she she was like, at the time, like I had like the rest of the week off. I had like another three or four days, and she was like, Look, you know, you don't have anything else to do. Just stay out there. So that's what I did, and the next day, um I'm sitting, I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go down this canyon and I'm gonna sit here and just hang out because being over there doing nothing is better than being at home doing nothing. You know? So I go over there and I see these deer walking up the hill across canyon from me, and this buck is acting super, super on edge. And I thought that was kind of funny, you know. I like it, I it was one something I paid too much attention to. I was just like, oh, you know, the coos deer are super jumpy. Uh that's a desert whitetail for people that don't know what that is. Um, they're super jumpy. All of a sudden, I hear crashing coming down the hill in front of me, and I see this big tail wagging back and forth in the air, and there's a mountain lion charging down towards this buck. And I'm like, just like my eyes are like just popping out of my head. I had never seen a mountain lion before ever. Um, and not to mention chasing a deer, you know, like that's super like just national geographic status. All right. So deer got away, mountain lion sitting there in front of me at like 200 yards. I was rifle hunting, and and I and right then it hit me. I was like, oh my god, I have a I have a mountain lion tag, you know. I'm sorry for getting off on a tangent, but this is totally related to what you asked.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Sweet, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Um, so I end up shooting the lion. I'm there myself, nobody can come help me. This is the first animal I would have ever blood trailed ever. Um, I had never killed a deer before, um, anything. So I go around and I blood trail them, and I find this big pool of blood, and nothing past that. And after about 10 minutes, I look up and I see the lion laying underneath a tree, just licking and licking himself, facing away from me at about 50 yards. And um I took I stayed there and I I watched that lion for like a you know 30 seconds or so because I I mean, like I said, I'd never seen one before. So and then I shot the lion right between the shoulder blades, and it he was dead, or she was dead in like 10 seconds. Oh wow. The moral of this whole story is that had I made the decision to go home, okay, I would have never gotten to experience that. Totally, yeah. Okay. So where the article comes from is dealing with that constant, I mean, for me it is, I'm not gonna say it's like that for everybody, okay, but like for me, it's just like this constant battle mentally of especially if you're having a tough hunt, okay. If it's like tough hunting conditions, maybe the weather's bad, maybe you're not seeing a lot of animals, okay. Um you know, you're laying there on your sleeping pad, and you're like, oh god, you know, my warm bed seems really well. This mountain house is becoming just like you know, like it's just like every everything, you know what I mean? But here's the thing, man. Guys like you and I wait all year to go to go on these hunts, okay? And myself, like I I I I'm a nut job. Like, I'm I'm scouting almost all year. Like my hunting season ends in January. I start scouting for bears again in late March. So I yeah, so I mean I I don't lay around a whole lot. Um so we wait for this all year long, this thing, man. It's like you've been dreaming about like like going elk hunting or whatever, okay? Fantasizing about this adventure, and you finally put yourself in this situation and all of a sudden things get hard. And you start having the battle that I'm talking about. You know, should even if it's even if it's like should I move to another spot or should I just the whole just the whole game, man, you know? And that's what that article's about is like I wanted to like let f people know that you know what man, like home is gonna be there when you when you get when you're done. You you've been debating all year for this, and then once you put yourself out there now now things get tough, you want to go home. No, no, no, no. Like you would be doing yourself a disservice by denying yourself that what denying yourself life. Okay, you know, because fear okay, fear and like the unknown and all that whole thing, um is responsible for holding people back from experiencing life. You know what I mean? Like what life has to offer, you know what I mean? We're getting pretty deep here, but I'm just saying, like that that's what it's about. You know, it's about like look, like, and the disconnect is you know, I'm constantly thinking of my wife out there, you know, like she's my voice of reason. I'm not afraid to say that, you know, like she's my best friend, and I spend every day with her, and then I get out there, and it's like I'm having a tough time, and you know, I want to talk with her and consult with her about what's going on during my hunt, and I can't always do that, you know, and it's just one of those things, it's like, look, you asked to be here to live out your dream, whether you fill your tag or not. You know, I have to I have to keep reminding myself of that. It's like I asked for this. Like I asked to be away from home miles into the backcountry, you know, eating crappy food, you know, getting probably not sleeping that well, uh hiking 10 to 12 miles a day, like that's what I asked to do. And now that I'm and that's like now that you're doing it, all you can think about is home, and then you go home, and I guarantee you, if you go home early, you regret it.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Oh, yeah. I mean, well, so how many have you figured out like personally how many days it takes you to start feeling that either whatever we want to call it, homesickness or that yeah? Is there a certain time frame like either you feel it right away and then you can get over the hump, or do you does it take a couple days to start feeling it and then you get over the hump? And how long does it take you to get over that?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Like like Oh, dude, it's it's deaf for me, it's definitely in the beginning. Yeah. It's like cause it's like reality check. Yeah, dude, it's like the the the change, man. I'm like like rate. Uh I remember uh you like la well not last month, but uh a couple weeks ago when I was in Colorado, I was hiking in on the trail, and I was like, and I was thinking that. Yep, yeah, you know, oh my god, dude, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

But I like I said, the whole year before that, I had been like, oh man, I can't wait to get back over there. I can't wait to get back over there.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And it's like the day I'm hiking in, I'm like, um, you know, and I'm like, I'm feeling the homesickness, you know. I'm feeling like it's like anybody that's done it before, that has spent like well, it doesn't have to be backpack hunting, but like that has spent time away from home, like a week, two weeks away from home on a hunt, you know, especially if you're by yourself, like you know what I'm talking about. Like you see, it's you for me, it takes me probably I'd say probably by like the third day. Yeah, I'm pretty settled in.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

To get the bugs out, yeah. And you're like, okay, cool. This is my new normal.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

It's like you get because you get into the routine of Like oh time to go filter water, you know, time to make dinner, time to hike an hour in the dark to get to where I want a glass from. Time, you know, you just like it's just like a cycle, and I find that something that helps me immensely is hunting itself. Like when I'm when I'm out there, like you know, let's say you well while we're talking about elk hunting, you know, like let's say elk hunting, um, actually hiking and bugling and calling, just doing the whole thing, uh like act actively doing things keeps my mind off of the whole homesick thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Oh, interesting. Okay, that's that's that's good to know. Yeah. Like even if it might be the wrong move, like just doing maybe, like, okay, maybe I'm not supposed to be bugling, but if my mind's distracted with home, maybe doing something is better than just sitting there with a thousand-yard stare. Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Even if it's like, you know, okay, let me pull out my nap and like let's see like what we're gonna do for the evening or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, or where do I think these elk went? I'm always like trying to like keep myself mentally moving. You know what I mean? And and it keeps me engaged because that's what you want to be, man. You're out there, you you're out there hunting, you have a tag to fill. Some of these out-of-state tags are freaking expensive. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's the other thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

It's like you spent whatever, you know, $700 on an L tag, and now you're like, and the crazy part is for me, I mean, I I think we're very similar because I feel the same thing. And dude, uh I there was a video years ago by I think it was some I want to say Sitka came out with it, and it this guy goes mountain goat hunting, and it was like the first video I'd ever uh seen where this guy goes hunting and he talks about like how all he could think about was like he'd looked forward to this like once-in-a-lifetime mountain goat hunt, and all he can think about is wanting to go home, and yet he's out there and he's like trying to go through the motions, and I'm like, whoa, other people feel this way because basically I look forward to all year long that one block of time, and then it comes in and I'm like, I mean, I'm not really running away from home. I really like my home life, so sure I don't need the vacation from it. To me, it's like I have a pretty like I enjoy my life back home, so I'm sitting there laying at night or going up these hills, and I'm like, what am I what the heck am I doing? Like, why am I out here so early in the morning and I should be home? Like, is this even worth it? And like, and then it like you said, last year I went on like a four-day elk hunt, which was for the most part my longest like four nights uh in the elk hunting, like in one shot in backcountry. And the first night I was like, okay, yeah, I'm feeling it. And then by the like you said, by the third night, I'm like, oh, this is totally my new normal. Yeah, and then I was like, oh, I kind of miss it out there, but dude, that barrier, I mean, me personally, dude, I I felt that I got to Crater Lake, I was on my the PCT this year was full of those moments, dude. I bet, I bet it was insane, man. Like, you know, and one specific moment, that's why I'm curious to know how you deal with it. And like what like you said, keeping your mind busy because dude, I hit a freaking wall. Like, I had to visually, I was probably in I would I was like already writing articles about why I decided to quit because I'm like, that's not worth it. I'm not in the forest, didn't seem cool, it wasn't pretty. Um, I was finding any reason to quit. I'm like, I hope my knee hurts. And I told my hiking partner, I'm like, um, we're done here. Like, if I wake up tomorrow morning and my knee hurts, I'm like, I'm going home. And he was like, okay. And I, you know, I had Oregon and Washington to hike. And the crazy part was is that for me, Oregon and Washington were like my home. Like, I told him, I was like, I will, you know, come hell or high water, I will do Oregon and Washington. And in Crater Lakes in Southern Oregon. I was like, nope, we're done. Like, no, I and so I I was sitting there and I'm I'm I'm trying to play those games mentally. I'm I'm trying to think about the next section of trail. I'm looking at the map, trying to plan, and I had no no desire to plan. I was like, okay, let me look, think about meals. Nope, meals aren't doing it. And I'm like, I'm done. Like my goose is cooked. I am mentally, it's over with. And one of the things that helped me was one, my my friend was there. He was like, All right, buddy, whatever you, whatever you want to call it. Like, you know, I think you should continue, but if if if this is it for you, this is it. And I'm like, okay, so I wake, I I told myself, I gave myself a timeline. I'm like, if I, you know, this tomorrow morning, that's the day I'm gonna call it then. And I woke up and my freaking knee didn't hurt, and I was like, well, okay, there's not a reason. And I missed home, and I'm like, well, okay, I'll go through the motions. And I started going through my routine, and I was like, I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna pack my tent, I'm gonna go resupply, I'm gonna, and I told him, I'm like, okay, let's let's go one more day. And I went one more day, and dude, within um that night, dude, like you talk about that that mountain lion experience, and I had this we hiked uh 20 something miles that day, and that night a big, big old storm comes in, and dude, it looked like glitter falling from the sky. There was hail coming down, and the sun was going down, and and it was getting dark, and there was that like that midnight blue look stormhead, you know. And I was like, I almost missed this. Like, I could have been on a bus home, and instead I was like taking photos of this incredible storm moving in, and I'm like, and then over the next couple days, you know, I just continued my routine, and pretty soon, like I had to visualize breaking through this mental barrier, like breaking through like a banner, because I was dude, I I was done. Yeah, it's tough, man. Yeah, it's tough. And I I think a lot I'd like to know how many people experience that because I would imagine there's people out there that don't experience it, they're like, Yeah, I belong out here, and this is my normal. And I'm and even towards the end of the trail, for me, you know, I'd been on the trail for five months. I'm like, sure, dude, d do I love it out here? Absolutely, but dude, I also really love it back home, and and I'm totally ready to be done, but I've committed to this thing and I've looked forward to it, and the same thing with hunting, and and you and you asked to be there, totally, yeah. And you have to remind yourself that yeah, and that that's almost the hardest part. You're like, no one's forcing me to do this thing, I'm choosing to do it on my own. So it's like this it's almost this like internal integrity check. You're like, um, hmm. I wonder what I should do here. And and it's amazing what happens when you just stick it out.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, I mean uh Ste uh Steven Ronella said something a while ago that that really resonated with me, and and it really, I mean, this whole situation that you're talking about, he said there's things that suck while you're doing them but are fun afterwards. Oh yeah, yeah to look back on to you, you know, because you like it's like yeah, man, this really sucks right now, but you like you look back on it and it's like that was awesome. Totally amazing. You know, and it's like you it's like this this sense of accomplishment, you know, that that you it's like you know that you did that. You know, like and I um I had a tough like last year, man, I had a super tough bear hunt. Like drew a spring bear tag here in Arizona, and like um I hunted for four or five months and I saw five bears.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Oh yeah. I remember post about that.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, well the same thing kind of goes with that is like I couldn't sit there and know that I quit. You know what I mean? Like to know that I didn't do everything that I could have done and deny myself, like I said, like deny myself that experience that I asked for. I just couldn't deal with it, man. You know, like I just had to keep going out, and like I didn't fill my tag, but I hunted till the last day. And um I think it's important that people do that, man. You know, because like with hunting, uh the the thing that has something that's really stuck out to me is like your hunt can literally turn around in a second.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Like one second, I like you might not ha see anything for four days or whatever, and then bam, right there. It's like, oh my god, it's it almost seems like it's not real. You know, when something like actually pops out, it's like, oh my god, that's what I've been looking for, you know, like my goal is right there. Um and if you went home, you would never see it. Like you you would you wouldn't have the opportunity to to to succeed. You know, so um, yeah, I mean the ways that I think you were gonna ask uh how I deal with that. Um a couple things, man. Like my wife, when I go on long trips, um this sounds kind of corny, but my wife writes me notes for every day that I'm gone. Oh, cool. And like, yeah, she'll like, you know, Monday, Tuesday, blah blah blah, and like I read e read a note every night in my tent, you know, before I go to sleep, and it's kinda like, you know, she just kind of goes through like what she did that day or what she was planning on doing that day. Um, and it's kind of like a little piece of home, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Um yeah, that that's really the biggest thing, and then other than that, it's just staying driven and staying busy and remembering, like I think having experiences where you take stuff to the bitter end and then you succeed, um, I think that helps out. It helps me because I look back on stuff like that and I'm like, oh man, that dude, that one time, you know, I was bear hunting and I didn't see anything, and then at last light on the last day, a bear popped out. Right. And and if I would go home, I would have never seen that. And I ended up, you know, I ended up killing that bear. It's like um, so I try to remember things like that, reflect on the past, you know, and it reflecting on the past helps me look to the future.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

D do you find yourself like like I relate it to kind of working out like, hey, today I'm gonna lift the X amount of weight, you know, and then tomorrow I'm gonna lift, you know, next week I'm gonna lift the next amount, and you kind of build yourself like this oh man, like an outdoor stamina, like, okay, cool, I'm not feeling that weird tug as much anymore as what I used to because I'm I'm kind of exercising that you know brain power to like stay out there. Do you same thing for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Well, yeah, dude, I think that that goes with um having a plan. I like to have plans.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

You know, like uh let's say you know you're elk hunting or deer or whatever, it's like, okay, today I'm gonna I'm gonna get out on this ridge, I'm gonna glass from here in the morning, and then maybe at night I'll go and look off of this spot. And if I don't see anything, the next day I'm gonna go over here. It's like so you have this plan, yeah, you a schedule for sure. Because if you just thought about that, yeah, dude, if you don't have like a lot of guys fly by the seat of their pants, and believe me, I love hunting like that sometimes. Um and just going with the flow. And a lot of times I will go day by day, but I'll have a general idea of what I'm gonna do. You know, and it's like I'm just gonna go this way and work my way into this country, and you know what? Maybe I'll maybe I'll sit at a wallow, maybe I'll maybe I'll glass. It just depends on where I end up. But the point is, is that I have a plan of action. And I think that's a lot better than just bouncing around like a rubber ball and and being scatterbrained because if you're scatterbrained, you don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Dude, that's actually really good. Um I honestly I've never thought about that. And as you're talking, I'm thinking, I'm like, huh. I'm trying to think of the times that I had a schedule and I was I didn't feel that homesickness or that that weird tug to find a reason to go home. And then I think about the times that you know, I dude, I think you're absolutely right. Like the times that I had a plan, I was like, okay, we're gonna go do this, this, this, and this. I and my mind was active because I was on a schedule. I never felt that that tug as much as I did when I was like, I guess I'll just go to this one spot, and then I'll like Yeah, well, sweet, there's no deer, that sucks. Uh, I guess I'll go home now.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Right. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, for I mean, and it's not, you know, like you said, like it's not like that for everyone, but I mean, for me, that helps me out, man. You know, even even stuff like you know what? Uh I'm gonna go do this, and then at two o'clock, sometimes I like to eat dinner like super early, so I don't have to do it later. Totally, yeah. Um at two o'clock, I'm gonna sit down at a nice spot and I'm gonna, you know, boil some water and make dinner and sit down and relax. Okay, because here's the thing. Whether you fill your tag or not, you being out there in that country is an absolute privilege. Totally. And I've I think that some people um I'm actually writing something about this right now, but I feel like some people take it take for granted what's in front of them and the opportunity that's in front of them. And they get too wrapped up in their hunt. Don't get me wrong, I I'm a driven dude. Like, and I and I've done some stuff that my wife would probably smack me over in order to fill tags or track animals. I remember I remember one time I crawled into a bear uh into a cave with my headlamp at a 357 tracking a wounded bear. You know, like I've done some done done some stupid things, okay, but stay driven, but don't forget to enjoy the little things, man. You know, it like take in the whole experience. This is this isn't uh this isn't killing, you know. We're out there to hunt and enjoy, and I feel like a lot of guys, especially if you're a backpack hunter, like taking in that backcountry experience, everything, man, filtering water, cooking dinner, set you know, where am I gonna sleep tonight, all that, like enjoy it. Yeah, because it's it's all the time. Yeah, exactly. Like the mountains are not a place for stress.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

No.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

You know, like we go into the mountains to to forget about that stuff. You know, like we want to leave our civilian life behind and decompress. And I feel like in a world where so many people get caught up in the nine to five grind and the constant, constant hammering of like going to work, paying bills, just you know, kids, whatever. What you know, um, I feel like sometimes you forget to sit there and enjoy the little things, you know, and when so when you go into areas like that, even if you only get one hunt a year, and it's like you got a big two-week elk hunt coming up, you know what I mean? Listen to the wind, man. Dude.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Like enjoy the wilderness. It's like it is there to be enjoyed. And I feel like some people take that for granted, and that makes me sad.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Well, I think a lot of times, like the moments that I've the moments that I've sat there and just you know been like, you know what, I'm just gonna take a break for a while. Like your energy goes down, and like I think the the forest feeds off of, or the mountains, you know, they feed off of different energies, at least from what I from what I've experienced. And and the second you kind of relax for a moment and kind of take it all in, like you start seeing things moving a lot differently. Like birds start chirping a little more, and like the forest starts coming alive alive, and you're like, cool, I'm now a part of this experience, and and then yeah, pretty pretty soon you you belong, like you become part of it, and you're part of the environment, and there you're now you're hunting.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Oh, yeah, and and the whole I mean, you know, we get to see things that some people will never ever see. And I feel like sometimes, you know, like this year, I had I mean, I had a super tough elk hunt in Colorado, man. I mean, just like a just super, super gnarly and tough. I like it didn't see elk for seven days, like really gnarly. Okay. Anyways, that made me realize how much I take for granted seeing elk in Arizona. Like it gets almost annoying. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, another elk, whatever. Where's the bears at? Or where's the deer at? You know what I mean? Like, and then I get out to Colorado where they have the biggest elk herd in the in the country, and I can't find one. Like, you know what I mean? And it's like the meaning, man. You're like, why are you playing with my emotions? Yeah, and it makes me like be like, man, you know, like I saw so I s n saw and see so many elk in Arizona, like, it makes you makes you, you know, appreciate that a little more, you know? I remember um and what uh a time that really made me realize that was I I took my wife out uh a couple years ago, and we were sitting there glassing this little bowl area that I really like hunting in, and some elk walked out and a calf uh came up and started drinking from her mom. And my the my wife's eyes like lit up like LEDs, man. And like and seeing the look on her face, it was like again, okay, like if I was there by myself, I'd be like, oh cool, you know? But seeing it from an like I don't want she's not an outsider, she's outside all the time, but um seeing it from someone who doesn't get to see that all the time made me look like wow, like that's really special.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

You know what I mean? Yeah, so yeah, that was really cool, and I'll never forget that look, man. I I constantly try and get that look out of her every time I go out. You're like, how about this one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a it's a privilege being out there, man. It really is, man.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

I I it's funny, like I I'm thinking about, you know, when I go, I I didn't get to go archery hunting this year because I came back early September in the in the Washington season. I just didn't think it was right to go out there with a stickbow and like and fling arrows at 15 yards and hope they hit something, and I'm like, mm-mm. So I'm gonna go rifle, and I'm just sitting here thinking, I was like, you know, I I need to take what I learned from either this discussion and then the things that I learned on the trail and and apply them to the to my next hunt because there's gonna be times when I'm like this freaking sucks. And Washington in the in November when rifle elk season happens is like terrible. Like it's cold, wet, and rainy, and some probably I mean, you're lucky if you get snow because at least it's not as wet, you know. Oh wow. Uh it and it's just how it is, you know, and you're climbing up and down these you can get miserable really quick. And so uh man, I mean, just from talking with you, I'm gonna make sure I, you know, implement some of these ideas of like scheduling and planning and and make sure that I'm powering through those those moments that and I I'm actually really curious because you know, I got real comfortable out there, you know, by I hiked like 200 mile, almost 200 miles by myself, um solo, and I'm curious to see what you know how I feel going back into the wilderness uh in in that kind of respect. So that's interesting, dude. So dude, what yeah, man, yeah, dude. I do go ahead. Go ahead. I'm curious, like what what continues I've met people that go out in the go out in the mountains or hunting and they go once and they're like, we're done. And then I'm like, okay, cool. Like, cool, not your thing. So what continues to bring you back over and over and over again?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Okay, so uh that's an easy question for me. Um that lion hunt I mentioned to you. Well, it was a bear hunt, but I killed the lion. Um when I got back to the truck and like I said, I did all that by myself. Okay. I I and it was not easy. Like I said like I dragged that line uh I think it was like three miles or something like that. And you were so um Yeah, yep, okay. Like it was more intense. Yeah, so it was all sorts Of things were going through my head as I was dressing that lion out because I was I knew there was I mean I was bear hunting, I knew there was bears in the area, I just wasn't seeing them. Um so I'm dressing that lion out and I'm like, oh great, you know, a freaking bear's gonna walk up on me, he's gonna smell the blood, blah blah blah blah blah, you know. So going through that whole thing. And uh when I got back to my truck, I I skinned the lion out, quartered it up, put it, you know, went through the motions, put it in the game bags, got it in the cooler, and when I drove away, I'll never forget that feeling that I had, man. It was it was the one of the biggest feelings of accomplishment I've ever felt. It was like, and and that maybe that's not like that for everyone, you know, and and that right there is probably why everyone doesn't hunt, but for me, when I drove away, I told myself, I was like, I need to do this all the time. Like I need I need I need more of this in my life, and like constantly um pushing myself to you know, whether it's like, yeah, I make like little goals for myself, you know. Like like this year, I like I really wanted to kill a bear with my bow. You know, it was like a super big goal for me. I missed a bit, I ended up missing a bear twice uh last month. And um I looked at that and I was like, you know what, man, like I could look at this as like a super negative thing and be like, ah, you know, I missed, you know. Like I like I didn't it wasn't a failure, it was an opportunity. You know what I mean? Like it's just like I just try and look at things positively, and that's a lot of times easier said than done, especially during tough hunts, but like when you have a tough hunt and then you succeed, that feeling right there is also addicting. Because you know what I mean? Because it gives it gives you like so much confidence in like you know what, I'm I'm starting to figure this thing out.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Yeah, I can do it. Yeah, this is what I yeah, I put in the time it's a serious result.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Yeah, I can do it, you know, and and and it so that that's what it is for me, man. It's it's and you know, like a a a super simple answer is I just love it. You know, like I just love being out there. Like I go out and call Elk when I don't even have a tag.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

You know, like I it's just my like my wife, she loves going out there in in September and hearing bugles and stuff, and my dad, you know, he's he's been coming out with us and going on bear hunts and stuff, and Jake, my brother Jake, you know, he's been filming stuff, and just like it's like you know, it's like a little click, you know, and all of us are kind of like experiencing this thing together. So like this year, one of the things that I was really driven to do, like, aside from you know, getting a bear with a bow, was I wanted to get my brother a bear. Oh yeah, and we ended up doing that, you know. So it's like seeing the look on his face, and like he just broke down. Like after after that bear, the bear died, he just like broke down and started crying, man. Like that's because that's intense, man. It's intense, but like the level of appreciation that he had for that. Because that kid's been following me around for years, packing bears out for me and stuff, and like you know, he's his opportunity just didn't come, yeah, you know, and the and that's hunting, you know what I mean? Um either he wasn't there or like you know, I I mean I saw the bear first or something like that, you know. But um just the whole thing, man. That's what keeps me going out there. It's it's I don't look at hunting as a hobby. For me, it's like a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

You know what I mean? Like every day I'm doing stuff hunting related, whether I'm shooting my bow in the backyard, I'm writing articles, I'm talking to you know, dudes like you, um, whatever. I'm I'm always doing something like that. So it's like really it's just like part of my routine of life.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Dude, and that's crazy. Like you grew up, you know, you only started hunting, what'd you say, like five years ago? Like really getting into it? Like super getting into it. Like five years.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yeah, yeah. Like I like before that, I I think I started going on hunts with my dad when I was like uh well, the first hunt I went on was I was nine. And then after that, it was kind of like, you know, every year or every two years, we you know, we would get drawn for deer and and I would go out with him and stuff. We never killed anything, okay. So I learned from a very young age that that you know the the the saying like that hunting is more than a kill. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's experience, man. It's it's it's getting up early and trying to get your clothes on really quick because it's cold out, you know, and and drinking some hot coffee and warming up, watching the sun come up over the horizon, like just all that stuff, man. Like that's what it is, you know. And um, that's the stuff I feel like people overlook, you know?

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Yeah, dude. I dude, I totally agree. Like, it's the whole I like that you've made a lifestyle out of it. Like you've chosen to build a lifestyle instead of like just the the average, you know, the what because most people I grew up the same way, like I just hunt in the fall and like call it, but in the last few years I've been like, you know, I'm gonna start making this more of a lifestyle. I have I'm probably not to I'm definitely not to the point. Like you are like we're all at different levels of like you know building it building your life around it and making it part of your daily you know routine. Oh yeah, uh dude, I I love that man. That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

That's actually you know, like be like building a life around it. Like that's actually how um I got into backpack hunting was like because I looked at backpack hunting as a way, um well, backpacking as a way to do something else with my wife. And it's like, hey, this is something that I can bring her out with me, you know, we can do together. Because she loves she loves being out there, you know, she loves camping, all the whole thing. And I can get out there, get more experience backpacking, check out some remote areas that I never have seen before, and enjoy it with my wife before I go hunting, you know, and um, and I mean this is totally off tangent right there, but like then she actually knows where I am.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Right?

SPEAKER_01 50:51

You know, it can be easy. She can find you if she needs, like, if you don't come here, you can find you. Like, just by like a safety element, like you know, it's she's not just like looking at a pin on you know on a Delorm message that I give her. Like, like she's like, you know, so um that was another thing, man. So it's like, yeah, like in the springtime, I I backpack with my wife, you know, and then after that, and like while I'm doing that, I'm I'm usually backpacking in areas and I'm looking at hunting.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Oh, dude, I totally don't. I I trust me, I my all my friends know that if I ask them to go backpacking, I'm scouting. You you have a pair of you. Bro, I was I was scouting all the way. Once I hit Oregon and Washington, Washington specifically on the PCT, you better, dude, you can bet that I was scouting. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, there's no tracks here. Okay, let me I mean, I know I'm just on the trail, but dude, animals follow trails all the time.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

And I'm like, yeah, you bet you can you can be sure that I'm scouting. Like I'm taking those.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Dude, constantly, man, constantly. And then you you know what? Um you know what else has has become pretty addicting to me is you know how like the whitetail guys they get into the whole like trail camera thing and they're like in their gear and everything like that, and following these deer for years on end.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

I've actually kind of got into that with with I just bought my first trail camera, dude.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Oh, you you bought oh really? I just bought my first one the other day. I'm gonna set it up uh here in the next couple weeks before rifle.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Oh, nice, yeah. Dude, I use mine, I don't even use mine really as a in in like a hunting sense. I'm just a nerd. Like I just want to see I just want to see what's walking around, you know. And I've kind of got like that with bears.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

And it's like, oh man, like watching these bears grow, you know, and like, oh, I remember that bear. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's super cool, man.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Well, yeah, I mean you yeah, dude. I mean, there's look, we don't live in the mountains anymore. That's just not what we do. Right. So, like, at least I mean, I don't. Uh I don't either. So, but there's so much life out there, dude. One of the things that drives me insane about being home after being on the trail for five months is I'm like, that spot is still there that I camped at. My fit like a memorable camp spot's still there, and the wind's still blowing there, and the deer still walking by, and I'm like, I'm not there.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Yeah, nothing changes when you leave, man. Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

You're just I mean, you're the odd man out at that point. That's super weird. Yeah, for sure. Dude, I got one more question for you, and then I can and then we'll wrap it up, and you can kind of tell people how you uh how they can get a hold of you or check out your work. But um you you started out the conversation by explaining what Dialed in Hunter is and and why you started it. And you you had mentioned something to the effect of like you were going through these for the most part struggles of like getting, you know, you wanted to start taking hunting seriously or backpacking seriously, but you were having your own personal struggles and you just wanted to share that with people and like be be real and transparent. So um I I did the same thing that's so funny. Like we had the same mantra for like our two uh websites, like same thing, dude. I I that's probably why we connected so well. Um what's like I've run into so many people that are like, yeah, I'd like to try hunting or I'd like to try backpacking, but I they just don't do it. So if you have that person in front of you, like what do you what's your one piece of advice that you can tell them to be like, dude, like here's my one piece of advice for you, or like maybe one or two, or whatever. First thing that comes to mind. One piece of advice for what? Just for anyone looking to get into like into backpacking or hunting.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Okay, so um I think that number one, I think people need to be honest with themselves. You know? Um don't don't let social media get to you. Yeah, right. You know, um like you're seeing all these like huge bucks and bulls being killed and everything like that. There's no shame in killing a spike. You know what I mean? Like if you get like you are not some professional hunter, and neither am I. Okay? If I see a fork forky deer in December, an arrow is going in the air. Okay? I've killed one deer with my bow. You know what I mean? Like I'm I'm like you be honest with yourself. Put some meat in the freezer, do your time, and number two is don't get dis you're gonna get discouraged.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Okay? But you need to know that that's normal. Okay, embrace discouragement. Okay, because you like if you ha if you want to continue to hunt, you're gonna have a whole bunch of it. You know, like you you um just it it's just part of the motions, man. Like you you're you're learning how to do something. You don't like, for instance, like let's say you go buy a bow, okay? I bet you a hundred dollars that you're not gonna be able to shoot a bullseye at a hundred yards first shot. Okay, it's the same thing. It like you you have to go through the motions and learn how to shoot the bow. And so in the first in reflection of hunting, you have to go through the motions and learn how to hunt. Pay attention to things, man. You know, really pay attention to things. Like when you see something, you like you see an animal on a certain hillside, ask yourself why that animal's there.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Oh, yeah, dude. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Like, like, is he is the is he eat is he feeding? Like, what is he feeding on? I feel like little things like that go right over people's heads, you know, because uh sooner or later you can put a pattern together of like and it's gonna help you narrow down other areas to hunt. Is like, oh man, that deer was eating this type of brush. There's a whole bunch of that over here. Yeah. You know, go go check that out, man. You know, and be patient. Like, be patient. Patience kills, yeah, right? Yeah, it really does. It and and it patience not being patient will kill you mentally. You know, like in so and then number three, I'm gonna rewind, man. Enjoy yourself.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Yeah, because that's why you're out there. You don't do it to yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Don't get stressed out if you're not seeing anything, if you didn't fill your tag, your time will come. You it'll have, you know, as long as you continue to learn and open yourself up to that, man. Like, don't don't think, don't ever think my dad, ever since I was a little kid, he always told me, like, don't ever think you got it all sewn up. You know, be honest with yourself. You are a beginner. Take as much advice as possible, okay? And when you're out there, be observant, you know, and and just try to try to keep try to keep putting the the pieces together, and you will you will succeed. You you you absolutely will.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Dude, I I love it, man. I was uh those are like three incredible things, and I couldn't agree more, dude. Cool. Well, dude, how can people find you? Um Tell people where they can find you at.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

Yeah, man. Uh so you can find me at you you can go to my website, uh, www.dialedinhunter.com. Um I throw articles up there pretty regularly. Um I also I do some like guest posts for like I write for Go Hunt, XO Mountain Gear, uh, First Light. Um, so and then I'm all on all the social media outlets, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, it's all dialed in Hunter. So I mean, if you know, if anybody wants to chat, or you know, if you got a qu any questions or you just want to say hi, that's that's that's where you find me.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Cool, man. Thanks so much for coming on, man.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

You bet, man.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. Special thanks to Josh for coming on and talking about his personal struggle with disconnecting from normal life and the struggles back and forth and that whole entire thing. We're not the only ones that deal with this. I know there's other people out there as well. So I'm hoping that you took something from this episode that you can carry forward to your next adventure, which is what this whole ton of things are about. So we're just here to make a better outdoor experience. Thanks again for tuning in, and I'll see you next time.