By Land Podcast
This podcast is about learning how to have better backcountry experiences and understanding why spending time outside matters in the first place.
I have conversations with people from diverse outdoor backgrounds to learn from them and hear their personal stories. I cover everything from backpacking, hiking, hunting, conservation, and outdoor skills to the broader role the outdoors can play in our health, perspective, and everyday lives.
Thanks for listening!
-Emory, By Land
By Land Podcast
#1 - Pacific Crest Trail 2017 Recap with Jose Montanez
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On this very first episode of the By Land Podcast, I sit down with my PCT hiking partner, Jose (Bubbles), to discuss our journey up the Pacific Crest Trail in 2017. We cover what it's like coming home, transitioning back into everyday life, and what it takes to hike the trail. We also discuss our decisions, the mental struggles of Thru Hiking, and what we learned along the way.
Thanks for tuning in! Check out the links below to learn more, connect, and support the show.
Welcome to the byline podcast. My name is Emery. This is episode one. Welcome to the Byland Podcast. My name is Emory. You are listening to the very first episode of the Byland Podcast, and I am incredibly excited to be sharing this episode with you. In fact, I'm excited just to be doing this whole new thing. This is pushing me out on a new limb, and I'm kind of kind of trying to spin off of what I've been doing with my website, byland.co. My guest today is my hiking partner from the PCT. His name is Jose Montanez. He goes by bubbles for reasons that you'll find out in the episode. It's essentially just a discussion between the two of us about, you know, the struggles of the PCT and what we learned and all these different things. And we're just two average guys. We're not crazy through hikers or anything like that. You know, he talks about his experience. I talk about mine, where we came from and how we came together. And this is just an open, honest conversation about what it's like to through hike together. So I really hope that you enjoy it. I hope you enjoy, I hope you get something out of it. Um, that's the point of this podcast, to be able to have something to take away from the discussions that happen on here and implement them on your next outing in the outdoors. So again, thank you so much for tuning in. And without further ado, let's just get right into it. Dude, can you introduce yourself real quick? Because I've been writing about you for I've been writing about you and I's journey down the PCT or up the PCT for a long time. So just like if you could just quickly introduce yourself uh and where you come from and all that kind of good stuff.
SPEAKER_03All right. Well, I am the uh infamous Bubbles. My trail name on the uh on on the PCT. Uh go ahead.
SPEAKER_00How did you get how did you get that? How did you get that name? Because I'll introduce myself as Pooparazzi and we'll go over that. But what's what's your name? How'd you get it?
SPEAKER_03Well, we had uh, as you know, you and I had quite a shoe dilemma uh the first few um days of the trail on the trail there. Um and uh I just had these really nasty uh blisters that uh I think it was you that pointed them out, and you're like, dude, those things look like bubbles. And the name kind of stuck afterwards. So and uh yeah, it just kind of embraces not the most manliest name, but you know, I kind of it's not Blaze, it's definitely not Blaze or like Warhammer. Yeah, yeah. But uh yeah, I took to it, you know, owned it.
SPEAKER_00And uh where where are you where are you from so people know?
SPEAKER_03Um I'm originally from New Jersey. Sweet.
SPEAKER_00Um, okay, so I I'm Pooperazzi, that's my trail name, and I'm from Vancouver, Washington. Not born but raised for sure.
SPEAKER_02Um so it couldn't be it couldn't be any uh we make the oddest pair, you know. It's like country mouse and city mouse, you know. It's just it's pretty funny, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's let's let's talk about that. Let's start from the absolute very beginning. What was your experience with backpacking going into the trail? Because I think there's a lot of people out there that think through hikers are these like they've been doing it for a long time. And regardless of how many miles that we hiked, you know, I consider us through hikers. Um quickly, like you and I have very different backgrounds, I think, at least experience-wise. Um, I'm not a through hiker either prior to the trail. So what what's your experience, like experience level going to this trail?
SPEAKER_03Well, I've had very limited through hiking or backpacking experience. Um I will I would kind of define myself as a experienced traveler. I've been around and and traveled abroad and so on, but um the whole uh through hiking business was uh was was new to me. And uh especially growing up in the city back east, you know, it it I kind of threw myself out there with this experience.
SPEAKER_00Uh well you had told me you'd done the the uh Camino, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but the Camino is like totally different from uh that that's glamping. You know, you stayed at hostels or or hotels and you're gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00But it's still a number of miles that you're covering every I mean throughout the trip you're covering a number of miles. So at least you kind of knew what the repetition was like.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but I mean prior prior to the Camino, I I mean, excuse me, prior to the PCT, I I'd never done any any more than 20 miles, you know. And as you know, that was a big that was a big to-do for me out there, but uh yeah, that that was uh that was totally um new experience being out there. But yeah, I I would say in all just uh just very limited experience, not much through hiking experience.
SPEAKER_00So what a little taste you have no through hiking experience at all whatsoever, and neither do I. So how did you how the heck does someone with no experience hiking more than 20 miles a day for I mean we basically got ourselves into a five to six month backpacking trip having no having never done it before? So how in the world did you get from how do you how do you decide to do this thing? Like you and I hiked the trail together with Warrior Hike. So what what did you how'd you get into this thing?
SPEAKER_03Um someone recommended it to me, sent me the link, um, was like, hey, I think you'd be interested in this. Uh I was uh due to retire out of the military and uh someone sent me the league and they knew I wanted to do something kind of epic, crazy. You know, I wanted to take a prolonged trip. I've always taken like a month or so, but wanted to do something a little more challenging. And and uh yeah, I thought this would be the perfect time to do it with Warrior Hike, you know, doing it with like-minded individuals and you know, getting the support we we did from uh Warrior Hike as well was uh was great. So I I think it was just perfect timing for me. And uh don't get me wrong, I wasn't 100% on it, but I was like, okay, here it goes, just taking that first step and uh see what happens. I I put in my name for you know the application process, and uh yeah, things didn't get real until they you know got back to me and were like, yeah, you you got accepted in the program, and uh we'll see you in April. I'm like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00So you're different than I am, like I or than I was, I had been thinking about through hiking for a number of years, and I kind of warmed up. I'd been working with Warrior Hike and now Warrior Expeditions for like two years previous to the hike volunteering. So I'd kind of prepared myself mentally, and I think I had my own fears, but like you it sounds like from what I gathered over the the miles that we hiked together, it wasn't really a last-minute decision to to do a through hike, but it definitely I don't think it was something that you were thinking about for years on end. So there you get accepted, you apply to the program, six people get accepted into the program, and you're one of them. Uh what are the major fears that you had going into the trail straight off the bat?
SPEAKER_03Well, I kick into like 80s montage training mode, you know, like straight out of Rocky or something, you know. Like I start getting physically prepared, but I also start mentally preparing as well. Um, listening to podcasts and just reading everything I can and uh getting in touch with people that have done the hike before.
SPEAKER_00Did that stuff help you, like this 80s montage?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think at first I kind of was overwhelming myself a bit, you know. I I kind of went into it a little, you know, too much, you know, on the gas there.
SPEAKER_00And uh because you had all these like I remember you had all these like these these like homemade um things that you'd seen on Pinterest, like all these little these little widgets. Like you had I remember you had that little cup, that like peanut butter jar thing, and then you had these like old soaking, you had these clips on your um backpack for like hanging socks off of, and you had that seat pad that was kind of like a thermal regulator thing for like a koozie, it was like a seat pad koozie thing.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like I said, I got I had a little too much time in my hands, and uh so did Yeah, I I think my big pay I think one of the with with that said, I think one of my fears was not being prepared enough, you know, both like physically and do you mentally. You know, in hindsight, just you just I I say you just go at it and just go out there and you go at your own pace and and you just as long as you're pacing and you got that capacity to just you know take things in stride and learn as you go, and because you're gonna there's gonna, you know, there's gonna be you know fails, you know, you're gonna have you're gonna have some failures out there. And you know, I as I say that I'm like the whole fail compilation is running through my mind, you know, of all the clouds. Yeah, the cloud music, you know, Ed. But um Yeah, I mean the the big fear was and and doing it on a group as well, you know, that whole um you know not letting people down, or you didn't want to be, you know, you don't want to be that that person slowing people down, or or or vice versa.
SPEAKER_00So like my major fear, I think for me, you know, I I I grew up maybe not grew up, but I I do a lot of hunting and backpacking back home. And to me, like the the idea of backpacking wasn't that big of a deal. Like the idea of backpacking for a long period of time was a big deal, and I was like, for me, the my biggest fear was like, okay, my my job, my my employer's letting me go for five to six months. They agreed to six months. Um, I've talked this thing up, you know, not only to myself, but I've at least informed a number of people about it, and I was kind of not I I wasn't embarrassed to tell them, but I'm like, dude, this is a huge daunting task. Like you tell people you're you're gonna go hike the PCT, and they're like, oh, what section? And I'm like, uh, the entire thing is the and I remember when we were on the trail, people were like, oh, how you for how far are you gonna go? And we're like, well, we're gonna try and go all the all the way, but you I mean, hell, I don't even know what's gonna happen tomorrow if like I roll an ankle and I'm out of here, you know? And and so the intention is to make it all the way to Canada, and so you have that goal, but my personal fear was and the shoe pocalypse at the beginning of the of the trip was like, you've got to be kidding me. I'm gonna get sent home because my foot, my my feet are gonna be jacked up, and and so right off the bat, I'm like, my greatest fear of letting people down back home, and not only that, but like letting myself down because all these people are rallied behind me. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, shoot, I I mean, what am I supposed to do? Like, that's my biggest fear is letting people down and like going home early. Like, I don't mind making it halfway and going home because I got hurt. Like, that's fine, but I mean, day two, I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? I have gigantic blisters on the ankles of my feet, and so does my buddy the would-be bubbles, you know, soon to be bubbles.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah, it got it got real real quick after a few days, you know. Like, you definitely got a reality check out there.
SPEAKER_00And um So did you did you have that fear of like you? It sounds like your your fear was like, am I prepared enough? And my fear was like, am I gonna go home early?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you don't want to it it was it was almost like you know, I I told you this on the trail. You and uh like you go there and you're almost you don't I didn't mean to, but you kind of like size everybody up. You're like, okay, uh, you know, if I gotta go, I hope I'm not the first one, you know.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, you can't sound like your own version of Survivor almost.
SPEAKER_00And then and then one of the guys does go home like um what a week, a week into it, he made it all of a week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, about a week or week in a week or two, yeah, yeah. About Warner Springs, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh so what did that do to you? Because to me, I'm like I remember getting to Warner Springs and we'd done our first I did my first 18-mile day, and then and I felt like I was walking the bloody stumps the second day, and then I did 18 miles the the day, so two 18 mile days back to back, and then we get to Warner Springs, we have dinner, and find out one of the guys is gonna leave, and I'm like, oh my gosh, they were starting to get picked off. Like, like, what do we do here?
SPEAKER_03But even before that, like when we were in um Mount Laguna, we I mean that that uh hiker boxes loaded to the gills like exploding for for a reason because a lot of people are just you know either doing a gear shakedown or or they're calling it quits. So I mean I wasn't surprised. I I you know I was disappointed, you know, because we all wanted to, you know, we started together, I wanted to end together, you know. You just don't want to see somebody leave, you know, and they they put up so much effort, you know, already and they just start it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So well, and we got told, like, hey, if you can make it past the first two weeks, yeah, it's not easy, it's not easy going, but at least you've kind of made it past a hump. And we were also told like Warner Springs, basically, there's a trail of tears. Um, you know, people going home. And I I actually felt like people weren't going home as much at Warner Springs as they were. And we Warner Springs, just for references, what did we do? A hundred miles, like that's just after a hundred miles. Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_03So you're still in the desert.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you're like, oh my gosh, this what did I get myself into? Which I felt like people were falling out. Like, do you remember how many people we saw that first day that looked like absolute death?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. I remember, and that that was kind of a reality check for me too. When we met up and like we drove by um the diner at the cafe there, and I was like, holy cow! I mean, like, how many days has these guys done already? And like I sat there and kind of did the math, and I'm like, well, they should be here by like day three, and they look like they've been hiking. Some of these people like they've been put through their paces, you know. Like, I'm like, man, that's gonna be me in a few days. This is what did I what am I got myself into? You know, and uh I don't know. I just try to make light of it and and just kind of enjoy the moment and and and have fun. But uh, I remember one guy told us, uh, one of the guys that mentored us out there for the first week, you know, he he mentioned uh you know, never quit on a he had like these little like little nuggets, you know, little little sayings, but they they they kind of stuck with me, you know. It's kind of like my my my mantra the first few uh weeks out there, you know, like you know, never quit on a bad day. And it sounds kind of cheesy, but I got I kind of just kept repeating it to myself, and I'm like, well, I guess I'll never quit because this first week is terrible, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's just it was a suck city.
SPEAKER_03And um he also mentioned a thing like, you know, don't think about Canada, you know, it's just you gotta break everything down. And one way he told me to break things down was like break everything down in threes, you know. He's like just be out there, try to do three miles, you know, if you could get over that hump, you know, the next goal three hours, the next goal like three days, you know, and and and and and three weeks or three months and so on, you know, and uh yeah, it kind of that kind of helped, you know, just reminding myself to say that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, that that's a really good point because I I don't know if I told you this, but I woke up uh the the this the first morning on the trail, and we had I had you know Texas sized blisters on my feet, and I was like this this is literally impossible. Like I I was thinking I'm I'm only 15 miles away from Mexico right now. And I don't even I can't even fathom being 15 miles away from Canada right now. I mean, it was ridiculous, and we only went 15 miles, and you know, if you compare that to you know the end of our trip, we were like doing 25. Like we were like, cool, 25 is good to go, you know? Yeah, and I was like, this is impossible. And I remember thinking, I'm like, there's no way that I can think of this thing as an entire trail. I have to just start breaking it down into one-hour increments and be like, cool, I'm gonna take I'm gonna hike an hour and eat something or take a break and then hike another hour. And it was awful, especially the first three days, because the second day for me, I started getting that what felt like a stress fracture on my right foot. Yeah, and I hiked what? I mean, I hiked you didn't have Crocs, I had Crocs, so I ended up hiking four miles or so in my Crocs, and then the next day I gave them to you so that you could have relief on your feet, and you hiked a similar amount of mileage. I mean, we were like limping into a Mount Laguna, and I'm like, this is impossible, like this is not happening. I'm out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I thought to myself, like, after the first day, it can't get any worse than this because I had a couple mishaps on my first day on top of my feet already, you know, so feeling the way they felt.
SPEAKER_00As a quick recap, this shoe pocalypse idea, Jose and I essentially had the same shoes, and we have the same size feet, and apparently same issues with our feet. And you and I had the same matching blisters from the same pair of shoes, and we chucked those things as soon as we got to Mount Laguna in that in that outdoor store. Because we were like, this is impossible. Like they what whatever was wrong with them, either they were too flexible or they just rubbed the wrong way. We got rid of those things ASAP and had to start healing our feet up, and we had swapped shoes. So we started out literally with major foot problems, whereas most people probably just had sore feet, and we had some serious blisters. So that was the beginning of our trail, and so we're I felt like we were battling back from a down, you know, from a major issue.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so that's the beginning of the trail. Like, we have all these issues, and we're trying to sort things out. You have what you've claimed as you you named her Mama Cita because that thing was like uh gigantic. We're you're supposed to be through hikers with these tiny packs, and here you have basically the kitchen sink on your back. And I mean, we we essentially all did. We bust you know your chops about it, but I mean, I look at what I had in my pack, and I I came home with and I looked through all my boxes that I'd sent home, and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I had this. I mean, so middle of the trail, let's call the middle of the trail. Um for for me, like whether it's physically or mentally the middle of the trail, I felt like Bernie was like kind of a very major turning point for us in the middle of the trail. So talk to me about where we were at, what happened to Bernie with the shakedown, and then like would you agree that's kind of like middle of the trail for us?
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I would say that that was definitely uh a good turning point for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what happened, dude? Okay.
SPEAKER_03So uh we linked up with this uh one guy, uh Salty, and uh he's he's an experienced through hiker. He's done AT and done a few other hikes. And uh so we tagged along with him, and um even before that, you you and the other guys were kind of getting on my case about um you know doing a shakedown. And uh, you know, I I thought it was I thought it was you know, it was time for a shakedown. And there was nothing else to do. We're sitting at Bernie. So it was if anything, it was good entertainment. I remember I remember everybody kind of huddling up all around the all around my um my bed there as I as I dump everything. But uh yeah, after after falling in the creek that one time, you know, with my weight, you know, that the pack trying to threw me off and everything. So yeah, all in all, it was like, okay, it's time. So we get this uh you uh you convince uh Salty that you know you're like, hey, this dude needs to shake down. So you you know, he was happy to oblige, of course. And um I was like, you know, this is now or never, maybe I'll learn something. And uh We talk about it, and in one podcast, um someone mentioned uh you know, you pack your fears, and like you said, I had a lot of fears in my in my pack. I mean, everything from packing way too much water, uh, even though it's the desert, we we uh I think we went uh we hacked at a good year. There was plenty of water sources in most places. Um that and and and food and and and clothing, and you know, but you know, do you like that?
SPEAKER_00So do you remember anything in your pack that you were like, man, that's really hard to give up. I mean, you sent your pants home, like you sent your pants home before I sent my pants home, and like to me that was like a huge I was like, oh my gosh, Salty got Jose to send his pants home. Like, this guy hasn't worn shorts the entire time. You had, and you still by the end of the trial had two pairs of shorts. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me! How did you get two pairs of shorts? Like, you know, because we were streamlined at that point. So you send your shorts, you send your pants home. I I mean, what else did you what what else is in your pack that you were that you were like, no, I don't want to send it home? Like, because I feel like pants is a big deal.
SPEAKER_03See, like, I um I at that point, like we were hiking uh up to Bernie, like you said, we we've done a few um we we were pretty um I say well seasoned. We we had pretty, you know, um licked our wounds and had um some pretty good mileage under our belt. And we were doing it. I felt like I had everything dialed in. Yeah, and I and I felt like I had everything dialed in, you know, like everything I have in my bag I need.
SPEAKER_00Yep, you know, and but but you dude, I remember that pile of stuff. I was like, I was like, well, there was rocks in there.
SPEAKER_03So it's funny because we we split the you know as he as he dumps everything out of my bag, he's like, just let me know what you need. I'm just gonna pick something up and just tell me if you need it or not, or what you use it for, right? And if I hesitated the slightest, that thing was that thing was gone. You know, that's a really good thing was getting tossed.
SPEAKER_00But that's a really good technique because Salty was like, you better say yes right now, or I'm I'm tossing it. And I think that is a huge distinction between need and think you need.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you're right. And also the point I wanted to hammer home too was um, like, so I split it up in threes to keep, throw away, and send home. Yeah, and I actually ended up throwing away more than I end ended up sending home.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03Which, you know, kind of was like, oh, I guess I really didn't need this stuff, you know. I mean, if I'm tossing it.
SPEAKER_00Baggies inside baggies, and like you were super organized because you're like, okay, I need this separate from that, and that separate from that. And yeah, that's just how it is.
SPEAKER_03Like, I all my all my do-it-yourself projects were good, we're out, out of out.
SPEAKER_00I couldn't believe you sent the bakuzi and yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, I tossed it.
SPEAKER_00So, okay, I remember coming back into that room and I see this backpack on the ground. You sent the lid home to your backpack. Yep. I mean, let's just be honest here, let's be fully transparent. Your bag was breaking, like it was ripping at the I mean, these bags are not meant to carry the whatever weight was in that thing, and your bag was ripping at the seams. Like, Salty ended up sewing it up with uh dental floss dental floss so that it wasn't gonna rip because we could get so this was a major thing. I remember I come back into the room and I see this through hiker's backpack on the ground, and it's yours, it's not his anymore. It's it's yours, and I'm like, you gotta be freaking kidding me. And now I'm looking at my pack and I'm like, Well, I looked good compared to you like five minutes ago, and now you got this tiny little thing on your back, and uh and you hiking out that day, or the following day, I was like, Man, I need to do some serious thinking about this stuff. And and I think everyone that was hiking with us at that time uh I think that was in their minds too. And then I think at the next stop I sent man, I think I sent my home my pants home um shortly thereafter. And and then I felt like that was a turning point for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, I remember you talking about that. I mean, it it just shows you just you know, you there's always kind of room for improvement and you just learning how to tweak things as you go along. And you know, I I I kind of stood my ground, I had to put my foot down on a couple things that you know Salty wanted to toss out, you know, but you know, and uh quarters they came in handy PP.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Hey, they did come in handy, they did, yeah, you know, next weekend. Yeah, you're right, like the next week.
SPEAKER_00And uh so I I felt like that was like a major turning point for for you and I, especially, because the weekend after that, the stop after that, it went from three down to two. It was you and me hiking from there on out, and I felt that uh you know it was it was seriously going to be mono imano, and we had to be as efficient as possible because now there's only two of us, and if we were gonna hike together, we need to be good to go. And so we started stripping down our our things and and tossing stuff that we didn't need. And I remember even after we do you remember when we got to Fish Lake and we decided to go home for two and a half weeks? Like you you spent two and a half weeks just like I did, thinking about all the things in your backpack that you could take out, and that was really hard to do because we ended up what did you end up taking out?
SPEAKER_03I wound up tweaking some of the um underlayers, like some of the stuff that I had home that I I like the quality a little bit better, and I wind up just bringing that. Um, like the same thing with the quality of socks. I wound up switching that up a little bit and and just some of the quality of the of the clothing. And uh yeah, I just kept tweaking to to the to the last day I was on the trail. I mean, like um buying those shorts and and and that and that and that top was was uh was a great was a great investment as well. It just kept um just tweaking everything. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And like so what what allowed you because if you think about like let's talk about from Wash from the Washington border up, you know, we we went from like packing our fears to playing with some stuff to finally we get done with Oregon and we're in Washington, and I feel like we're we're still tweaking things, you know. I so but now we're not afraid to try different stuff. I'm trying different food.
SPEAKER_03I lived on Oreos essentially all through Washington, and I hadn't eaten a single Oreo up until that we and we even uh we even considered I I don't know if you remember, but we even considered going um stoveless for a few days just to just to see how it was going. I I think we just got at that that level of comfort that you know kind of letting go of those fears and inhibitions of not having enough or not being fully prepared and and and kind of those experiences we had, you know, throughout the throughout the hike, you know, that kind of showed us, well, you don't need all of this or you don't need all that, or but you know, everybody's a bit different. And I I think when I initially started, um you know, when I dove into that whole montage mode, you know, and and like I pretty much was like studying the trail and listening and like trying to absorb every piece of information, but it was kind of a double-edged sword, you know, because like everybody's got certain ways of doing things, you know, and every not everything has to be followed, like if so-and-so wrote this book or has these tips, it doesn't be, you know, I quickly learned being out there that it doesn't have to be you know followed to the letter, you know.
SPEAKER_00Because everyone looks different. I mean, yeah, everyone's got a different bag, or like you see some common threads, you can tell there's definitely through hiking techniques that everyone uses.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00But like a Sawyer water bottle with a or sorry, uh a smart water bottle with a Sawyer filter on the top. I mean, that's for the most part pretty pretty standard, like because it's incredibly efficient. Yeah, and you like you and I had a dirty bottle and a clean bottle, and you fill up in a matter of minutes and you're back on the trail. Because at the end of the trail, we're covering 25 miles, so we don't have time to sit, you know, we need to take breaks, but we don't we're moving for two hour blocks and we're covering six miles or more in the in that block of time. We don't really have time to to dink around with pulling a filter out and you know, doing that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, yeah, but then you have the same person that probably does the whole gravity filter thing and he sits down and it's like, you know, I'm gonna take this time to air out my feet, eat a snack, you know.
SPEAKER_00And there's no right or wrong way. So, okay. The end of the trip, did you feel did you even recognize because I I've started thinking about this, and it's almost like I look at pictures of myself at the beginning of the trail, the middle of the trail, and the end of the trail. And uh aside from attire and things that we kind of swapped out in my uh tree beard, uh, dude, I I it looks like I even in the photos, the images that come through, I look way more confident and way more comfortable being out there. And you know, you we stare down the barrel of a hundred twenty miles and we're like, cool, I know what a hundred miles looks like. Whereas before I'm like, I don't even know. I have no that sounds terrifying. 100 miles is a huge deal. And so you and I aren't even like at the end of the trip, we used to hike really, really close together, and we talked about this the other day that you know we're like, cool, I'll see you at lunch, maybe, but I'll definitely see you at night.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. We kind of established where we're gonna rally for the night.
SPEAKER_00So did you see yourself changing like that? Like, I I mean I saw myself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. I I physical, physically and kind of like emotionally as well, you know, kind of letting go of those fears and stuff, you know. Like, man, I've never seen a bear in my life. I've never been that close to wildlife before.
SPEAKER_02And I'm like, I don't know, for some reason I thought if you were there, you know, like strengthened numbers, you know, the bear is gonna go away or whatever, but you know, after a while, like oh well.
SPEAKER_00Did you fear of like animals? I mean, dude, I um I saw so many people the last like 200 miles with like I mean, everyone's out there with like bear spray. And I'm like, bro, there ain't freaking grizzlies out here. Like I just not that I I think everyone should be safe and and do what they think is like you I think you should do what makes you comfortable. That is like bar none, like the ultimate rule for me. If you're not comfortable, you should be comfortable. But to me, I'm like watching these guys, and they're I I got to Canada and there's these day hikers like two miles in, day hike uh, and uh and they got like three cans of bear spray on each of them, you know. And I'm like, what are you gonna go to battle with these bears? Like, you're three miles in, like, they're not around, trust me. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's a little too close that I want to be to a bear.
SPEAKER_00I I don't plan on being that close, you know, but well, it just goes to show like my my comfort level, and maybe I got too comfortable, but my comfort level was like everyone's like, Hey, are you uh you you hang in your food? I'm like, no, I'm gonna sleep with my food in my tent. Maybe that's a horrible idea, but I've been doing it for literally like 1800 miles. Like Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I had one mouse with an opsack though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I had one mouse get into my tent one night. He nodd through the tent. You weren't with me, but I was like, I did my 31 miles, and I I woke up and this darn thing like nibbled through my bag and almost got in my food bag. And wow, yeah. So determined. So, dude, you you were we were covering 25 miles a day, not even thinking about it. It was just like, yeah. I mean, 20 miles actually felt like a we're like, well, we're in camp early, like, what are we gonna do? So, what did that mean to you that you were able to when you look back and you're like, dude, I was covering 25 miles a day, not even trying. What is that what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_03Well, the the whole concept of time, like when we started, I was like, oh my god, when when is this nightmare gonna end? And I'm just thinking of the day. I'm not even thinking about you know the whole trip as a whole, but just the day that some some of those days in the beginning were like they felt like the longest days of my life, you know. And I kind of slowly realized it's kind of how it's me kind of painting that mental picture that is, you know, that's taking eons, and I just you know, kind of tweaked my mindset, you know, on how far I'm going, and you know, just trying to enjoy the moment, you know, and and and and the people out there, and just interacting out there with the environment and people, and just trying to change my whole mindset instead of this whole you know, negative, like, oh, this is taking forever, and and just try to change it instead of taking it, it taking forever. I just like almost almost went into like this childlike state of like uh made it almost like a game, like I'm exploring, like let me see what's around the corner, and oh, there's a I can't wait to see that stream or water source, and you know, and so you were playing mental games with yourself, too. Yeah, yeah. And I did the whole like reward thing too. I was like, oh man, I'm gonna eat like half the bag of these gummy worms once I get to this water source. You know, it was kind of like my little reward.
SPEAKER_00Well, I remember you telling me that, like you you're you had a camelback for a long time, which you ditched. I mean, and you were using that thing a lot. Um and I remember you telling me that you would reward yourself by getting up this hill with you wouldn't drink until you got up that hill and you'd be like, cool, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a sip now and and and suckle, if you will.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and just yeah, just little breaking breaking the day down into like little mini adventures, you know. Okay, yeah, like I'm gonna try hiking without my uh poles up the uh a little bit up the way, you know, up this hill, you know, like a few minutes and then uh a few minutes longer and so on and so forth. And we were doing that as well with the brakes, like you know, trying to go a little longer or a little less and kind of finding out what works for us, you know, and and and just doing that, it just breaking the day down and little compartments kind of helped, you know, because like that whole yeah, I had a that whole sense of time, you know. And after a while, like we were like, uh, you know, three miles, you know, or or we're hiking for an hour, and it was like nothing, you know.
SPEAKER_00You know, it was so weird. Like I remember waking up on some of those mornings and being like, oh my gosh, I have 25 miles to hike, but then yeah, you roll over, you start doing your routine, and then pretty soon you know you're like, man, in one hour, I'm gonna be three miles in, and I, you know, if I you know, in two hours I'm under 20 miles, and you're like, well, that sounds pretty good. And then next thing you know, you're you're taking a break and you're having a snack, and you're like, do another hour, do another two hours, and and now you're like, man, I'm like 13 miles out from camp, and and I don't know what happens. Like it time, just like it goes by so fast when you're doing those those miles, and it sounds weird to anyone that's never done them, but you know, when you start seeing I I explained to people how trippy the the trail is in that do you remember how huge Mount Rainier was? Oh yeah, and the first time we saw, I think we were in Goat Rocks, we come around the edge and we're doing that knife's edge section, and you get this like your favorite section. Oh yeah, we get this gigantic shot of Mount Rainier, and you're like, man, that is a huge freaking mountain. And next thing you know, like what two days later, we're knocking on the doorstep of Mount Rainier, and then the the next day we're passing it, and you're like, How in the world is this even happening? My legs are literally taking me. I I can see a mountain and and no longer see it in a matter of days. And yeah, it's it's very weird.
SPEAKER_03It was like that with Shasta too. I remember we were like, we we walk by Shasta, and it's like, man, holy crap! And then you see we're like, where's Shasta now? And it's like, oh, it's up there back over there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, man, I know how far we've we've come, you know. It's it's a trip, you know, especially seeing it in the mountains, you know, that way was was different versus the desert, you know. And uh with the desert, you could see ahead of like how far much you have left, but like we were up in that area in in Northern California and and Oregon and Washington, it's like you're looking back, you know, which was uh interesting. But uh I think one interesting um point too that I wanted to make was um you mentioned um and it kind of goes back to like I was saying with the in the beginning, like how how like that information can be a double-edged sword. Like in the beginning, like when we would get up in the morning, I'd get on my, you know, I'd get on the apps and see what the elevation was, and you know, and so on and so forth. And I, you know, was like almost like mentally defeating myself, you know. And uh after a while, like you were like, dude, I'm not even gonna worry about you know, if it's there's a hill or what elevation, I mean it's gotta get crossed, it's got you have to climb it, so so be it, you know. And I was like, you know what? So you're right, you know, the to hell with it, and when just I set my phone off and just go, you know, I totally forgot.
SPEAKER_02It's kind of liberating though.
SPEAKER_00It was, man. I remember I was doing that same thing for basically up until the Washington border, you know, I'd wake up and do that same routine and look at the elevation, and and I was like, man, I'm climbing these hills and I'm not even there yet. And so I I think for me it was like a personal challenge. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna try not looking at the terrain. I'll give myself one treat. And my treat was I can look at the top of the map. You know, if I'm smart enough to figure out the elevation gain from a top of the map, then I win. But I'm not looking at the elevation on you know, the elevation chart. And because it's like when you see like a straight up shark's tooth, you're like, you gotta be kidding me. So I remember I challenged myself to not do it, and it felt so good that I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go another hundred miles without looking. And I so badly there at the end, dude, I wanted to look so bad to see how many more passes I had left, you know, and how how bad they were. And it felt so good. I hiked the entire state of Washington, never once looking at that elevation plot. And because I told myself, I'm like, well, what's the point? Like, like you said, you gotta hike it anyhow, and unless you're deciding to quit on that hill, if that's the hill, like you're looking for the the one hill that you're gonna quit on. What's the point? Yeah, so you're gonna hike it no matter what, so suck it up, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's just it was kind of uh I kind of I I call it my emotional shakedown, you know, just dropping all those uh needs and apprehensions that I had, you know, and just just letting go.
SPEAKER_00And uh well, dude, letting go do you remember looking at hills early on in the trail and being like, you gotta be kidding me, another hill? And then at the end, you're like, cool, whatever. Like, okay, that hill sucked. Um what? Like, I've done hundreds of them, and they're no big deal. It's just you get tired of what's the worst that could happen? You get tired, you take a break.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you take a break. You're right. Or puke.
SPEAKER_00Or puke, yeah. Bubbles is gonna pop.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. I haven't I had that moment a couple times.
SPEAKER_00You never did pop though. I was really hoping.
SPEAKER_02Get away and don't look at me. I just I just never I never popped around you, that's all. We'll just leave it at that. I was discreet.
SPEAKER_00So, okay, I wrote so the people that have read my blog know that I hiked the last 188 miles solo, and that is a sensitive subject for dude. It was sensitive for me, man. I I had to say goodbye to dude. I mean, I choked up. Like I I called Jess, and I I'm like, I called Jess at Steven's Pass, and I'm like, dude, I said, um, Bubbles isn't with me. I'm hiking out, I'm hiking out alone. She's like, what? And so I'm like, you know, we wake up at Steven's Pass um at the at a host's house, and and you'd had let's back up. I I hiked out of Snoqualmy and didn't see you that first night. It was a hellish, it was the Alpine Lakes section, and I didn't see you for three days, and you had never and I'm like, I gotta, there was no cell service. And I told myself, I'm like, I gotta get to the other side so that I can get cell service and figure out what happened. And I figured you were okay, but you you got sick the one hour into Snow Call Me, the the Alpine Lakes section. Yeah, yeah. And then I don't find that out until I'm checking with other hikers that may have passed you, and they don't they never saw you. And I'm like, well, that's okay. I at least they haven't seen you. Seen you, so either you took the wrong trail, which you have a ten you had a tendency to do, uh, you just keep walking. Um, like it's a clear switch back, and you just take the goat trail that goes on to the right. So I'm like, either he walked himself off a cliff or he turned around because something happened, right? So I get to Steven's Pass and you're you're already at the host's house and everything like that. We meet up, everything's good, and then we take a zero day, and then we wake up and and the look on your face like was dude, I'm not good. And we had 188 miles, we were staring down the barrel at 125, the the next section was 125 miles, and you and I had a talk. So I I think one of the awesome things about this trail is that like you have to learn to decide. Like we had to decide to go around the Sierra Range, and dude, that hurt, I felt that hurt my pride a ton. Because I was like, how dare I go around the Sierra Range? And I but we had our reasons, and you know, our group that we were with, we decided to go around for reasonable reasons, and and we were fine with it. And I I've I've since like I'm totally fine with that, and I can go back anytime I want, but like you're 188 miles away from Canada, and you made the decision, dude. I I'm gonna go home. So talk me through what happened, if you don't mind. Like how did you make that decision and what what was going on?
SPEAKER_03Well I mean, bottom, I if I had to sum it up real quick, I would say I just felt like it was time for me to go. Like I felt like I did what I had to do here, and I like nothing to prove, and I I was I was just ready to go home, you know, a bit homesick and and and and feeling a little under the weather and so on. And I no regrets. I honestly was surprised. I I thought I was gonna beat myself up about it, you know, coming back home, but I honestly I I felt like I made a good decision at the time and my body was falling apart. And uh dude, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we were literally like war of attrition on the body, right? Yeah, not only. I mean uh I hope people don't under hope people don't get the idea that you know, oh, after a while, you know, you're out of pain, you're no longer in pain. Dude, I was in pain every single day. It's just you know, pain became my friend, you know. I wrote a post about like I'm in pain, I might as well just uh soak in it and be like, dude, why am I in pain? Well, I'm in pain because I've hiked a thousand plus miles and I'm currently hiking 30. So like part of the reason why we were on the trail, and for those of you that don't understand know about warrior hike and the intimate part of it, it's for veterans, combat vets that have something to kind of like you're walking off the war, essentially. That's what the tagline is, you're walking off the war, and and so every single one of us at some point goes like you kind of have time out there to think about things, and and did that did that play a part in any of your like did you realize anything or like play a part in going home or sticking it out at any point in the trail?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we we talked about that as well, and um you know, because out there kind of it kind of triggered back some you know some thoughts and emotions of you know being deployed and and what have you, but like you said, you know, sometimes that's a good thing, you know, and learning how to cope with it again, you know, and uh yeah, it was it was it was it was interesting, but well it was it was hard to do. It's a different environment for me.
SPEAKER_00Totally, dude. And it was you know, it was equally as hard for me to see you go as it was probably for I don't really know, I wasn't in your shoes, but all I know is that when you decide when you looked at me and you were like, I think it's time to go. You had never looked at me like that ever previously. Like, I mean, you looked at me like you were your goose was freaking cooked, like uphills. I was like, oh, if he's gonna go, he's gonna go now, you know. And you know, I likewise. I mean, dude, how when we were at Crater Lake, I was done. I told you, I was like, if I wake up tomorrow morning and my knee hurts, and I wanted it to hurt, dude. I wanted it to hurt because I wanted to go home bad. And you were you were like, okay, man, I accept it. Like, I don't know what that looks like, but I dude, I mean, I was ready to go home. I was already writing about how I made my decision in my head, and then I wake up and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me, my knee doesn't hurt. And so you keep going, and I know for a fact you got to those points as well. You were like, I'm done. Like, I want to go home, I want to be with my little girl, I want to be with family and friends, and like, so this was a very different situation for you, and you were so close to the border. But from what you and I have talked about since then, is that the trail no longer became about getting to the border, the be the trail became something else. So, what did it become for you?
SPEAKER_03It just uh you know brought a lot of things uh to me to the uh surface, like uh you know, um you uh just brought back a lot of um like it just reminded me like you that you're so much capable of of you know of so much more, you know, and uh you know, I was happy where I was at, like like um just the like it was empowering being out there, you know, making these decisions and and and and and overcoming these obstacles and challenges when we were out there both, you know, physically and and mentally. And like like I said, I felt like I got a lot out of it. I've had no regrets, you know, making that decision. I I I would actually surprise myself. I thought I was gonna come home and you know, put a gallon of Hagendoss on my lap and just cry myself, watch Wild a hundred times and just it just it just cry myself to you know sleep. But I I obviously have no regrets. It uh, like you said, it's always gonna be there. I can always go back, you know, by all means, I'm not like promoting, you know, quitting or what have you. And I can I could see some people like, oh you quit, but you know, but you know, it's it's your hike. People say hike your own hike, you know, it's it it sounds cheesy, but I mean it's you know, it is true, you know, and I I was comfortable with the decision, you know. I felt like, hey, this is this is I'm in the driver's seat, you know. So yeah, I I think it's time to hit the hit a rest stop. And that's what we did.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, man. So okay, you've been home. Uh so your trail ended a little bit earlier than than mine did. Yeah. Not not much, but you know, we've been home for a few weeks now, and d how are you doing since being home? Like we talked, I think it was yesterday, the day before, about you kind of just feeling like this man, it's need for adventure. Do you what are you feeling like? What's it like coming off? Bro, you spent five months on a trail every day, day in and day out, wearing the same underwear over and over and over again, having dirty clothes, dirty shoes, dirty feet, dirty skin, and like and now you're back home. Like, what do you think about like what's it like being home to transition back to society, I guess?
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, I don't know. I just I have this like buzz and this like excitable like energy about me ever since I've gotten back. Like, I kind of, if I had to put it in analogy, it's like going to like a seminar for like a pyramid scheme or something, and and then you just want to go and tell everybody, but I gotta kind of I've I've been like making a conscious effort to kind of like slow my role and not like you know scare people off or bore them to death with with you know just stories about the trail over and over again. But that's how I feel, you know, like you know, you you you kind of drank the Kool-Aid and like you wanna you wanna spread the the joys of through hiking to everyone, you know?
SPEAKER_00Have you had someone ask you, like, have you had someone express interest in like, yeah, I'm thinking about doing it, man, or you know, whatever. And what do you if so, what do you say to them?
SPEAKER_03I say go for it. I say, you know, don't don't read into it too much and just don't don't you know don't have any doubts, and just you know, it's gonna be doubts, but you know, just mentally prepare for it. You know, it's not gonna be easy, and you know, it's but you know, they gotta take the good and the bad. It's gonna be a lot of a lot of fun as well, you know. And uh I say do it. Do it. I'm like like the Richard, I'm like a little Richard Simmons of of of of the PCT right now, you know, with my little blue shorts. Do it, everybody. You know, it's just I don't know. It's just it's just great. I just do I say do it. Go for it.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you think you'll do you think you would do another one? Man without the pooperazi?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I don't know. You would you and I like we we we clicked so well out there, and like when like when you mentioned you know me quitting, uh like when when I decided to go home, I you know um part of that was I I I think you empowered me and gave me that courage, you know. I think we leaned on each other on those good times, I mean those bad times, and and obviously we did have some good times too, you know, crack it up and laughing because you definitely have to have a sense of humor out there. I mean, yeah, I mean if not, it's just gonna eat you alive.
SPEAKER_00I was dying. Do you remember I was laughing? You got mad at me when I was laughing. We were on that sister section, and I'm like going up. It was by far the worst section. Like, whoever made that trail is the like a spawn of Satan because it's like walking up a sand dune full of marbles, and I'm giggling to myself like a little schoolgirl because I'm like, this is so ridiculous that it's hilarious, and you're don't film me. Oh, don't don't don't film me, don't record me. When I get to the top, don't record me. And I got scolded you scolded me when I when you saw my camera.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00And I was just dying laughing. But I mean, you were laughing too after it was over with, but dude, that was the worst like half a mile or whatever it was.
SPEAKER_03I think it was like the biggest practical joke uh Mother Nature played on us because like most of Oregon wasn't too bad, and then we got to that second, and it's like surprise, surprise kidding.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna make up for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, seriously.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, you're right, you have to have a sense of humor about it because there's only I mean, that's how I cope is I'm like, I gotta laugh because this is ridiculous. Like, and do you remember when you, me, and Tom are sitting in that godforsaken uh tundra of mount or whatever. Where was that at? When we were sitting in the snow and Tom looks like he's got that thing over his head, and we're just like giggling because we're like, this is so. Yeah, I'm just dying, like he's dying. He's dying laughing, and we're like, we're cold, we're moving at one mile an hour, we get lost, and you're just you gotta laugh, or else you're gonna you're gonna shrivel up and quit because yeah, you might as well laugh.
SPEAKER_03That's the day I spooned with you. You weren't you weren't having it, but I I was I was getting some body heat somewhere or another.
SPEAKER_02I was I had no shave at that point.
SPEAKER_00I was like, dude, it was so cold. And we had to take a break. I didn't want to quit. I didn't want to stop because I was cold and wanted to keep I wanted to get the heck out of there, but you have to treat your body well, and we had to stop. And so yeah, dude, so so what do you like what would you do differently? Like if I was like, hey homie, um, we're doing the CDT next year, uh like immediately like what are you gonna do differently?
SPEAKER_03I think I'd go with my gut on a lot of things, you know. If like don't hesitate. Um just just rely more on on the mental aspect of uh, you know, because I felt like like I had to have the right gear and I had to pack the right way, and like I don't know, just rely more on your wits and and and experience. But I guess with time we we gain that experience, you know. So um, yeah, I I think I wouldn't stress as much. I I think waiting to get started was like the worst.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, it's like I don't know, it's just like you're waiting, you're you're waiting at the doctor's office for good news or bad news, you know, you're like, oh god, you know, we just want this data, come and just find out what the results are.
SPEAKER_03But you know, finally getting started, I I think just kind of enjoying instead of getting all um caught up in preparing and and and overdoing everything while I was at home, maybe enjoying home a little bit more, probably, you know, and I think I would have done that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00But um that's awesome, dude. Like I think, you know, we again we we come from very different backgrounds, but I told you the other day, I'm like, you never, you know, you may have said that you were you know you were the slowest one out of the group, but dude, you never camped early unless you told me you were gonna camp early. Um there was you always made the miles and you were always right there with me. So um I know I'm not the fastest guy, I'm no jackalope, you know, but yeah, that guy was insane. Yeah, but I mean, you know, you you were both physically different. We're not physical specimens by any means. Um except for my calves, I guess. Like you said.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the golden calves.
SPEAKER_00Um but I mean, like, we did the same mileage, we hiked the same amount, and we did it in the same amount of time. And I like I remember seeing. Do you remember the old people we saw and the young people we saw, 18-year-olds and like 65-year-olds, and big people and small people and skinny people? And you're like, literally, everyone can do this. It's not for one body type, it's not for one, you know, it's not as for a specific athlete. If you want to do it, you you just freaking do it. Like, no one's gonna do it for you, no one's gonna carry your bag. Um if you want to hike the miles, you gotta hike the miles. And that's the beautiful thing about a through hike, is like no one can take away the miles that you just hiked, whether you hike 500 or 1,000. Like, no one can take those miles away from you because you got your pack from point A to point B.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think too, in the beginning, I was I'm I was so out of my comfort zone, like you said, this is new that I didn't really have a standard to compare to. And the only thing I can compare, you know, as far as the standard were you were the guys that were next to me or hiking next to me, you know, and like you said, everybody's a little bit different. And it took me a while to, you know, realize that and and and come to terms with that, you know, trying not to keep up or just go at my own pace, and you know, and and and slowly, like you said, everybody's hurting out there. I mean, just some people process it a little different or show it a little different, but um yeah, yeah. I mean, I kind of let go of that and just just kind of just focus on walking, like you said, and just enjoying it and and just get lost in your thoughts and heck yeah, dude. Just go out there and put one foot in the front of the other, like you said, no one is gonna do it for you, and it it's a it's an amazing accomplishment. I I I like you said, I mean, like that first hundred miles, I was that was weird. It's like, oh my god, I can't believe we've done a hundred miles, you know, and then so on and so forth.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, dude. So to round out the conversation, um, last question is there a moment that is there a single moment or a single thing that sticks out to you um throughout the trip that like you'll you'll always like, man, I'll always remember that, or that was super special, or that like say it was like a a view or a person or a whatever is what what was it for you or an idea?
SPEAKER_03I wouldn't say a single defining moment. There were there were some there were a few moments out there. Um it's hard to nail down.
SPEAKER_00Someone asked me that the other day. I'll tell you my answer after.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I know I already know what your answer is gonna be, but uh um well, at least I have an idea, but um it's all your Corman stories. No oh god, I hope not. Um just it's some you know, you there was a few stories talking to people that kind of stuck out to me. Uh one guy, you know, um the guy I think we went by Santer with a total man crush on this dude. This guy was, you know, he's a C sees it like uh through hiker, you know, old, like kind of a hippie kind of guy, new age, you know, yeah, way of thinking and so on. And um I remember before I left, someone uh gave me the book Wild, you know, and I was like super critical about it, you know. And um, you know, it was and I talked to him about it because he we it the subject came up and I was like, yeah, she didn't even finish. And he's like, well, you know, yes, he did, you know, it was her journey, you know, and that kind of stuck with me. And then here I am, I kind of ended quick either. Uh I kind of ended my trip, you know, short of the, you know, I don't know if that's karma or you know, or just I kind of could came to terms with it, but you know, I was like, hey, you know, that's that's that's a good point. That that kind of stuck with me, you know, and let me see. Man, as far as scenery, I mean, there's some there was some beautiful areas there. I mean, hiking alone, that was that was great. And just yeah, uh, I remember sitting in front of, I'm gonna say it was Rainier, and just sitting there and just having lunch by myself was great. You know, I was like, man, I gotta wanted to put on some like fleet foxes or something in the background. I needed some like scene music or something. Yeah, it was just like epic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, dude, for me, epic moment.
SPEAKER_00I I hate to tell you this, but as far as scenery goes, man, the best 30-mile stretch by far was between Rainy Pass near Winthrop and Heart's Pass. Bro, it was like mile for mile, like some of the most beautiful country um I've ever I ever saw on the trail. I mean, we didn't do the series, I know, but like mile for mile, like it was a nice, easy trail, it was good quality trail. Um, and that's important to through hikers, man, because you're hiking on crap trail and rocks and stuff, and you want to throw yourself off a cliff. Uh so like mile for mile, scenery-wise, I mean, northern Washington is just epic. But for me, like when so when this someone asked me that question, hey, what what's your biggest takeaway from the trailer? What's your what's the most amazing thing you saw? And I'm like, dude, it wasn't something that I saw, it's something that I did, and I think for me, it was the the idea of how far your legs can carry you on a yeah, day like in one day, and to see that the distance you can go, and knowing that like a car didn't get you there, like you got yourself there. And and like I mentioned earlier, seeing mountains come and go. I mean, I got I started really loving I got really jazzed each day about like covering miles, and I got super into it, and I'm like, I actually had more enjoyment hiking than I did taking breaks and camping, because I'm like, no, dude, I'm out here to travel. Whereas like that is a complete opposite of where I've always been my entire life. I'm like, well, dude, it's actually about the destination, you know. I wouldn't I need to get to that viewpoint, and and for once, dude, in my life, I'm like, they always say it's all about the journey, not the destination. And and I'm like, no, really, for me, like it finally turned into like I was enjoying moving at three miles an hour, and I'm like, this is awesome. Yeah, and it was like a challenge myself to be like, I mean, especially when I got those uh Mio caffeines.
SPEAKER_03Oh god, yeah. You're like a you're like a gremlin.
SPEAKER_00Dude, it's theme music, so that that was it for me, man. Well, dude, I think dude, thank you so much for chatting with me about this. I I think we have so much, you know, if people really if they listen to this and they they enjoy it, I mean, just know that Bubbles and I are covering it this is not even there's so many elements to this trail and and so many things that people don't really talk about. You can read books and and you can learn about the trail and like how to do it and stuff, but I think one of the things that you and I have talked about the entire trail is like the kind of the other side of the trail that people don't really talk about too much, at least, and or maybe maybe they do, and I don't I've never read it but or heard about it, but um dude, I would love to continue the conversation if if people have questions about it. And I I appreciate you coming on and and like being willing to record uh podcast and and see what people think about it because everyone's journey is different, and you and I had I I wouldn't trade it for the world, man. Like, yeah, we didn't do the Sierras, and who who cares? Like, they're still there, they'll be there tomorrow, and they'll be there next year. We can do them anytime we want. So um I got some really awesome things about it. But dude, thanks for being an awesome hiking partner, man.
SPEAKER_03Uh likewise, man.
SPEAKER_00Dude, all right, dude. Well, thanks a lot. I'll I'll stop the recording, man, and uh we'll we'll be done here. Thank you so much for joining me for my first episode. I know I was excited to talk to Jose. We talk about the trail all the time and such good discussions that this is just barely the surface. So hopefully we were able to add some value to you, give you a couple nuggets of wisdom or things that we learned and talked about the struggles that you can take with you on your next outing. If you enjoyed the podcast, let me know. Shoot me a note at www.byland.co. My email is emoryemor at byland.co. Subscribe to the channel, sign up for my mailing list, and you'll only get emails when new content's posted. Again, thanks so much, and we'll talk to you soon.
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