SPEAKER_01 0:20

Welcome back to the Bailand Podcast. My name is Emory. Thank you so much for being here, and welcome to Better Backpacking. This is episode 180, and my guest today is Mike Martin. The universe has a very funny way of giving you exactly what you need when you need it. And this episode is right on time for me. Mike emailed me recently to introduce himself and to see if I would consider having him on the show. And what immediately stood out to me was how he was weaving this love of history in with his love of the outdoors. In this one email, he mentioned Daniel Boone writing a book, journaling, meditation, long-distance adventures, and how spending time outdoors goes beyond just pretty pictures and the gear that you take with you. Mike had me hook line and sinker, but I have to admit that while all of those things are great, I was most interested in the link back to Daniel Boone. Because if you're not aware already, By Land is 100% inspired by the journals of Lewis and Clark. So the idea that someone else out there in the world found a connection to the past and mixed it in with the outdoors was enough for me to find out more about who Mike is and what he's all about. And finding out more far exceeded my personal expectations. And as you're about to find out, we barely, barely, barely skimmed the surface of Daniel Boone. This conversation with Mike is up there with the best of them because right off the bat, Mike was willing to be open and honest about who he is and what his journey has been like. I'm sitting here trying to figure out what I could possibly say about this episode that would capture it in the right way. And I just can't do it. So I'm gonna let the episode do the talking and just say this. Mike does not have it all figured out, and he doesn't pretend to either. He's just a guy with a human story like everyone else. But what makes Mike special is that he's trying. He's trying to make the most of his life knowing that he can't be perfect. He might not always get it right, but that's not the point. The point is that he wakes up every day, puts in the effort, and practices this thing that we call our existence. I don't expect everyone to fully grasp or be on board with everything that Mike is talking about in this episode, and that's perfectly okay. Mike is in a different headspace. If you're anywhere close to where he's at, you're gonna pull some really great nuggets out of this episode. And that being said, if anything in this episode does spark a thought or a feeling or anything you feel like sharing, I would love to hear about it. If the podcast player that you are listening to this episode on allows for comments, leave a comment there. Or if you feel like you just want to message me directly, you can do that at emory at byland.co. This episode is really cool. It was unexpected. And I remember getting off the call and just feeling grateful. And I hope that it does the same thing for you as well. If you like this episode and you want to help me grow the show and reach more people, the best way you can do that is to share it with a friend or wherever you do your social networking at. That's it for me. Please enjoy this episode with Mike Martin. Mike, welcome to the podcast, man. I'm really stoked to have you.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I'm stoked to be here. Thank you so much for having me and taking the time to celebrate my work with me.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah. Well, I'm jealous already because I'm inside my house and you are, I'm looking at you. It's look like you're on a back porch. All I see is like you and Forrest. So man, I need to change up my setup. I'd love to be podcasting outside, dude.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

You know, I I started doing this actually, uh, all this creation stuff when I was homeless, living in my truck. Okay. And as I got more stable and got on my feet and got a place to live in that. I'm like, you know, in reality, I do a lot of outdoor meditation, a lot, a lot of hiking and historical stuff that involves outside. Why don't I just continue to do it outside?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah. That's interesting. What's that story? What's that backstory? Like, how do you go from that living in your truck to doing this?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

So it all came about after uh my second divorce.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

My life fell completely apart. You know, I was homeless. I uh tried to take my own life. And the next morning when I woke up, I stumbled onto uh, I was actually listening to the Hunting Collected podcast all the time. Okay. And that, you know, that the crazy part about it, that specific day, Ryan Holiday. I don't know if you're familiar with that name or not. Is that the stoic? Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Okay. Got it. Stoul the stoic.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah, that I got introduced to that whole idea. You know, he started throwing these Marcus Aurelius quotes out there. And, you know, stumbling around in a fog. You're like, man, I really wish life was better. The night before, my ex-wife had said to my face, you know, you have nothing to offer me or anybody, your kids, whatever. That was it. And then I woke up and I'm like, I hear, you know, this quote about how adversity is an opportunity to showcase who you are inside. And that just smacked me in the face like a pile of bricks. I'm like, dude, if I wouldn't have woke up this morning, even though I'm shivering and I'm in my truck and miserable, that's what everybody, especially my kids, would remember. But if I could get back on my feet, then my kids would not only get that for my legacy, but more importantly, they would have kind of a mirror for when they hit that point in life that they needed to get back on their feet. And that that let that led me to talk therapy. And in talk therapy, two things came up journaling and meditation. I laughed about both. I'm like, that's absolutely stupid. That ain't gonna do nothing for me. And lo and behold, it's been a life-changing experience. And I'm combining it with the outdoors and learning how to utilize history as a mirror. It's been the most powerful revolution in my life.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I think that might be the most epic intro to a podcast I've ever freaking heard. How wild is it that Marcus Aurelius said something in a private journal one day and it kept you alive?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

It's insane. That's wild, dude. And the bigger, the bigger punchline to that is the fact that in reality, for who he was, he would have been mortified that I had the opportunity to read that because it was his private journal. Don't you feel kind of weird about it? But you're also I I do, and I am. In fact, that's that's kind of the irony to my book, The Honest Wilderness, is the fact that that book actually got compiled based out of 30 journals that I wrote while I was trucking through Kentucky and Missouri. Okay. Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, so okay, this journaling thing, what um, so this book that you have, it sounds like it's a it's from the journals, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

What, like, what was I wasn't gonna get into this just yet, but the journals. Let's start there because it sounds like you had a rough go. You learned about journaling and meditation. You're obviously an outdoorsy guy because you were listening to the hunting public and all that kind of stuff. So there's a bit of a recipe brewing here. How is it all related? And what did the journaling and the meditation do in combination with how did that impact you, I guess? And I know that's a big question, but like we got some time.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

So actually, you know, like I said, when it first came up, I was like, that's retarded. I'm not gonna number one, I'm not shaving my head. And number two, I'm not gonna sit and go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. And I pick up a pen and you know, draw stick people or whatever on a piece of paper. Yeah. Ain't gonna change my life. But finally, after the hour, I uh gave in and I sat down and just started writing words on a page. None of it made sense and none of it really mattered. But it was important to me at the time. And it slowly started to kind of lift my feelings and help me process my thoughts a little bit, organize things. And the further that I got into that, because I I would do that on hikes and whatnot, you know, found a tree, sit down, just kind of hang out and jot whatever down. And the more that I started doing that, the more Daniel Boone's name kept coming up. For any specific reason? I think at that point I was trying to understand not only why I was still alive, but how I got to where I was at. And, you know, growing up, I used to chase my grandfather on all of his outdoor adventures. He was a big Daniel Boone kind of guy in westerns and all that sort of stuff. And for whatever reason, that one specific name kept coming up. So then I started picking up the biographies, picking up maps, and you know, being like, hey, maybe I should go down and kind of explore a little bit more. There might be something there. And it was really interesting because as I was going through Kentucky and visiting the major sites that were credited to them, you know, hiking them and kind of traveling back and forth, I started not only understanding more about the legend, the things that we know about Daniel Boone, but also the man that lived beneath that legend. And again, to tie it back to, you know, how I really started building momentum in my life, he became a mirror. I could look at it at things from his life and, you know, see a little bit of perspective of my own where I could say, okay, this guy went through this terrible loss. He had to restart, he continued to go west and this and that. I kind of in a roundabout way went through that same thing. So this is how he got to it and how he achieved going from point A to point B. What if I could find a modern context to do that?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah. Dude, that's so crazy. Uh that finding someone that lived in the past, everything's on repeat, man. It is. Everything's on repeat. Like the modern context to Daniel Boone is him living his life and going through all that stuff. And it makes you wonder if somewhere in the past, who's Daniel Boone's Daniel Boone?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

That is a very good question. And, you know, obviously history doesn't put me in a position to be able to answer that question. But I I kind of in a roundabout like way like to almost think that it was the Stoics. Because there is a lot of similarity there between the way the ancient Stoics lived and the way that Daniel Boone practiced living.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Let me get this straight. So you start journaling and meditation, and then like you're writing stuff down, but this memory of like Daniel Boone, like there's a seed somewhere in the past where like Daniel Boone, it sounds like in your area, maybe he's a figure. Like he's like, he's at least in the ether, maybe as you're growing up. Yeah. And then as you're like kind of filtering out all these thoughts that you just have, you're coming across this thing and you've identified this guy from the past that's like, oh, there's a reason why. And so you just start investigating, and then all of a sudden Daniel Boone becomes this, I guess, a presence in your life. And where does it, where is it taking you from there? Because I was gonna start the podcast off with Lewis and Clark, and and then we went this way because I totally understand, I kind of understand where you're coming from, and I just I have to know that there's another person out there that like sees a thing from the past and it feels inspiration for some reason to like go on a path. So, how does Daniel Boone get you going in this direction?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

So I think originally what really drew me in when I started looking at the the human behind the tall pale was that need to continue westward. In my life, there was a lot of social anxiety. And it was something that I've always really struggled with and kind of pushed away from people. Now, I can't diagnose somebody that's lived a couple of hundred years ago, but there's a lot of similarities there. You know, a lot of people say that he continued moving westward because once he would open up an area and people would come in, the elbow room disappeared. So he had to go find a new elbow room. And I think that was where it really started to make sense for me. But then, you know, all the other stories that got handed down throughout time, it just you see a man that actually dealt with loss. You know, he buried his son, but he continued to come back to Kentucky. He lost land over and over again. Couple different points, he was poor. And I've experienced that same thing. So it it was a context that I could relate to. But there was also a lot of great successes. There's a lot of internal conflict and character. And a lot of what I really, you know, came to understand from walking that land and reading and exploring and discovering was really this question about every time that he went back, he never went back as the same person. So when he faced something, how did he find the strength to go and allow himself to grow so that he could come back and go and make that another step of forward progress?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And that became kind of an obsession point for you to like understand how he was doing it?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

It did. It became that obsession to see it through his eyes, but also feel it in my own boots. You know, we get on a trail and yeah, we get on a trail and we follow the markers and the trailheads, and eventually those kind of run out. They get a little harder to find in some on some trails. So what do you do? You pick a direction and you go. And I think one of the things that I learned most from you know the study that I've done to this day is a lot of that is that progress comes from just trusting yourself and understanding that every event that you've faced up to this moment has kind of magnetized that internal compass. So if you pause long enough when you're facing an obstacle or a challenge or you feel lost, you can let that compass bring you back north because it's already inside of you. And one of my favorite quotes from Daniel Boone, it was pinned in a letter later in his life to his sister Sarah, but he mentions the fact that he was never truly lost. Yeah, he was bewildered and turned around in the woods for three days, but he always found his way back. And I think that it was that life process of hardening the self-confidence and self-belief, and just helping you to hold on to that little prayer of hope that the next step is going to bring you closer to where you truly want to be.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

You mentioned a second ago that you were wondering what the connection, like what the modern version of this is. Like, and you talked about like the like you said that, and then you just mentioned the internal compass. Like you have it inside you. You just have to start listening to it, right? And so Daniel Boone's out there, he's talking about like physically, like, I don't know where I'm at. Like, what the heck? Because it's chaos, right? He's in the wilderness and he finally finds his way back. He's listening to his like his gut and he's he's doing the practice, right? And I couldn't help but like make a connection back to like what you asked, and then like this this last chapter that I read in this book, the modern version of the wilderness is over stimulation. Yes. And every minute of the day, your phone's going off, someone can text you, someone can call you, your kids are going here, there, and everywhere. You got pla someone wants something all the time. And not only that, we're programmed to think that that's okay. And what that does is negates the it it like it um raises the noise level to where you can't even hear your own internal thoughts. And until you just pause to your point and meditate, whatever meditation looks like for you, whether that's like in this book, this thing was like, you cannot change if you don't stay quiet. You can't change your scenario, you can't change your thought pattern, you can't change this bad behavior of yours if you don't spend time being quiet. And it makes me wonder if like maybe that's one of the modern wilderness issues that we have is like, yeah, there's no bears around the corner, but we have so much good, we've filled our lives with so much BS. We can't, and we're we're frustrated with our partners and our kids and our job and this, that, and the other, and we wonder why, and we can't figure our way out, but we haven't even spent time being quiet.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

You know, and I think that actually is a beautiful representation for the overall question that gets posed in the book is this reality that even though through modern progress, the frontier that we physically see has disappeared. But it's taken a new shape and it's internally.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Because we're all still struggling with those same questions and you know, the same outcomes, it's just in a different matter. And it makes me think back to what made me actually pull the journals back out after everything was done. Because in my daily career, I'm uh EMT. So, you know, I'm meeting people in their worst moments and trying to support them and help them through it. And I had this one particular patient. Obviously, you know, I'll keep a lot of the details out for HIPAA reasons, but you know, it was one of those moments where having that conversation, even though I was sitting on the bench seat in the back of the ambulance, it was almost like looking across and seeing myself laying on that stretcher. Because it was a lot of the same issues of just they had lost themselves, just like I had lost myself from the course of just trying to meet everybody's expectations. And that was just it. You know, I need I couldn't bridge the gap to get from minute number one to minute number two. So you pull the switch or you put a band-aid on it, right? And I started telling them about my story. And one specific part that came up was a quote that I really, really hold dear to my heart now. And uh it was uh penned in a book called The Wind is My Mother by Bearhart, where he talks about how there's many forms of death. You don't have to physically die in order for something that no longer serves you to leave your space. And I think that we really get uncomfortable with that idea in life. You know, we go through and they're trying to please everybody and live the script. That when we let a couple paragraphs or a couple sentences go, we feel like we're coming up short and it makes us very insecure. But one of the things that spending all the time out in the woods hiking and traveling, camping, especially at night by the campfire, it made all of that context melt away. It was very slow, but eventually I sat there and I had to just accept myself honestly for who I was. And that becomes something that you can really, I can look back and see that process through the journals. And it, I think that was something that if I had to uh kind of rate moments in my life or experiences that I've had along my journey, would probably be at the top of that. Was learning how to just accept myself for who I am in this moment and give myself that freedom to, you know, go left or go right and just follow that compass within.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

What happens if you don't like what you see, though? That's you know what I mean? Like we can I I you the reason why I ask is like that's the immediate question that I feel like no one follows up with, or no one they always say, hey, you need to accept yourself for who you are and get to that point. But like, what if you don't like it? You know, I feel like that's a gross feeling.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah, and I think about the way that a lot of before this chapter of my life, my outdoor adventures were. You know, it was always about get out there and go from point A to point B. Because eventually I'm gonna see myself and have to hear my thoughts and not gonna like them. And I always felt powerless. But I think just through the journaling and even the meditation, I learned that even though you don't like what you see, it's not where you have to stay. You always have the opportunity to make a decision about your next action or how to reframe something. And it gets back to a lot of self-talk, the way that we talk to ourselves in our head that nobody else hears. I remember always uh saying in the midst of you know an argument or whatever, you know, there's nothing you can do or say that's gonna be worse than anything that I can do or say to myself. Because I was always the worst to myself when it came to how I talked to myself. And it was quite the process to be able to change that, but that's where the freedom of being outside and just being able to see the natural ebbs and flows of nature started to almost paint a picture. And then you put the other practices that I had developed and started utilizing, became the different paints that you put on that canvas. And it teaches you real quick that you still have a choice. You can still be whoever it is that you choose defines who you are and makes you happy.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

I think journaling is a very underrated superpower. I think it doesn't, it gets such a bad rap because there's this like cheese ball. I don't think there's I mean, I don't think it's cheese ball. I think if there's this like stereotypical journal where it's like dear diary, blah blah blah. But to me, if I spend even just a few minutes a day, I I have like a notes app on my phone that I'll pull open and it sometimes it's a couple sentences and sometimes it's a couple of paragraphs, but just to get it out, just to like let it flow out, it's in my head, it's rattling around just to get it on paper. Um it just feels at the end of the day, it just feels like relief. And it's not weird, it's just thoughts. And they are what they are, and then they go away. And I feel like it's a really underrated superpower.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

It really is. It's one of those things we're uncomfortable with. We don't know how to start. But you know, just like when you get on a physical journey and you start going to the gym.

unknown 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Nine times out of ten, you walk in, you don't know what you're doing. You don't even know what your goals are.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Like, where do I start?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah. And you're like, okay, I I bought the uh $12 membership. I have the little thing on my phone to scan to go in. That's where you start.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

And it goes the same thing for journaling. You know, like like I mentioned earlier, for me, even in the beginning, it wasn't this like, you know, massive in-depth essay. Sure. It was, it was like two or three simple words that were most time incoherent, made no sense. But in that moment, that's what my thought was. And, you know, just like to go back to the analogy of going into the gym, you have this image, this plan that you want to, you know, sculpt yourself into this or that or do whatever with. And it's the same thing with journaling. And you, you know, you'll have somebody tell you, okay, physically, you go do this, you do that. Well, on paper, what you're doing is you're ultimately to train yourself, teaching yourself how to organize your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Because in your mind they're then bouncing around, you don't know which ones, there's no filter. Well, if you put them in the real, if you put them into reality, then there's the filter.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

And you can see your negative self-talk right there.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

You know, I think you can, but then again, I think it's also, I from my personal experience, it was one of those things that was so ingrained that I didn't even know that I was doing it.

unknown 28:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Even in my journals. And so finally it was pointed out in the session, you know, hey, uh, you might want to look at the way that you're talking to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Just be aware of it. And being aware of it, you know, you go through the process, you still do it. But you notice it and you start changing words here and there. And I think one of the most important parts, regardless of what aspect of yourself you're trying to improve, it's really worth noting that you're gonna have moments where you slip. You're gonna fall back into those old patterns. It doesn't mean that you failed, it means you're practicing. And eventually you get it right.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Dude, that's really powerful. It just means that you're practicing. Wow, dude. How long has this journey been for you?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

And I so this journey has been a good handful of years. I want to say I've stopped counting, but I want to say about five or six years now.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Wow, dude. That's really great. Now, where did um journaling's easy enough, right? You just open up, you have a notebook, you write some stuff down from time to time, maybe make it a regular pattern in your life. Um, meditation is a little different. Uh what did that look like? When you talked about journaling and meditation being like it's kind of have like I get it's kind of a recipe, right? You have journaling, meditation, and outdoors, walking and kind of doing that kind of thing. What did the journey and meditation look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 30:20

So actually, I think the best part to uh start with is the fact that none of these practices look identical.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

You you can mold them to whatever works for you because you know I had a lot of those stigmas, like I mentioned. Not gonna shave my head, go by the chance, CD, none of that dumb stuff. But getting out on a trail and actually just sitting down. Yeah. Or there's also another form of meditation called walking meditation.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Where you just simply focus on your walking patterns, your movement, and it slows you down. And um where I was going with that is the fact that it was kind of a all-in-one just throw spaghetti at the wall and whatever ends up working. But nowadays I do a combination of the two. When I'm out hiking, there's the intention of being present, following the movement, and actually, you know, going through and experiencing everything at a slow methodical space pace in order to get the most out of it and clear my thoughts. But I also do a lot of the sit-down meditation and just sit still and just kind of let myself flow into the moment, practice being present. And one of the fun aspects out of the past few years is I found myself teaching meditation classes. And a lot of the goals that I do with that is I try to eliminate the stigmas. Because I'll I'll team up with, you know, a local library or whatever, and we'll provide a class. It'll be like an hour-long guided meditation session. So in indoors, I'll set up this cool fire prop. I'll put everybody in a circle and you know, I'll walk them through this stuff. And I've had some very powerful and amazing experiences because going through that and just allowing somebody the space to be present. Yeah. I had one, I had one particular class where this lady uh came in and you could see she was visibly shaken and upset. And at the end of the hour, she came up to me in tears and thanked me for helping her find a way to start grieving with her husband's passing. And he had just passed away that morning. Oh that that's how I felt. I was like, oh. You know, there's not really words that you can say to that, because you know, thank you doesn't exactly fit. But I mean, holding that space and just allowing that kind of that kind of movement, I think is what the most important aspect of meditation is. Is you allow yourself the space to literally start to feel process and go through things that normally we can't find a way to do.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Well, and we cover it up.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

We we cover it up with our phones and stuff, right? Like you cover it up with all kinds of noise. And it's it's so funny. It's like I I feel like I know what you're saying in in the sense that you're like allowing your this you're allowing yourself the space to like be present. But I'm not really sure that people even know what that means. Like people have been taught from such an early age now to like fill every moment of your day with something. If you're not doing something, then you're being lazy. And they don't even have peace and quiet anymore. Like sitting on the couch and having a cup of coffee, reading a book, or not even reading a book. We'll just say like sitting on the couch, having a cup of coffee in the morning is a no-go. Like that's the only thing, two tasks that you're doing, sipping coffee and sitting. People don't do it. No, I try to, but even I'm like, I'm like, I should probably, why don't I just add reading a book in here? And and I realized like I so I read the chapter in this book, and it was basically like you can't be the I read it a couple times. The end and it's haunting me because it's like start with just being quiet. Start with doing more of nothing and see what happens. And I feel like the first step to meditation is just maybe allowing yourself to just be quiet, do nothing, don't be distracted, and and be aware of your thoughts going through your head for the time being.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

That's actually a very good place to do it. And because in our society we uh are literally trained to avoid doing that, there's a really good practice that can help, and that's guided meditation, which which is what I do with people. You know, I bring them into a room and I don't just say, okay, sit down, shut up, and don't move for an hour. You know, what I do is I I actually I'll walk you through a breathing process. And then as I get you relaxed and guide you into the moment, I use just like uh the way that I do in the book, I use actual Lee the outdoors as a mirror. And I'll tell, I'll tell a story and you know, I'll walk through things because a lot of people think meditation is literally about being blank. But the reality is I've discovered for through you know my practices and people that I've worked with and shared this with, the reality is that the most important aspect of meditation, just like with journaling, is being able to understand the thoughts that you're having.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Like um, one of my favorite guided meditations to take people through is you know, you're walking you're sitting in the woods and you see an old tree that's come down. And you think about that from our aspect of life, where when we get knocked down, we get really angry. We get really bitter. So we stay right there in that moment with that anger and that bitterness. Then you look at the way that that tree has begun to decompose and break down. And it becomes a beautiful mirror for the way that anger and bitterness eats us up internally. And externally, we end up expressing and becoming this bitter, angry person. But then you think about maybe a squirrel running across that tree, finding a home in it. And originally, when that tree stood vertical, it probably found its pride not only reaching up toward the sun, but also providing a home for the birds. And now because it's on the ground, it it felt like it had no purpose until that squirrel came and ended up burrowing in and finding a home. So it's all about adapting to where you're at now, finding the the benefits of it that still speak to your values and who you are.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

As you were saying that the thought hit me that I think this is what people don't understand about what you're saying is that someone I feel like someone could listen to what you just replay what you just said and be like, Mike, that sounds pretty woo-woo. Why are you turning this tree that's just a freaking tree into this big thing that it doesn't need to be? And I and you could be like, I I feel like the answer is like you're you're you don't you're not understanding the point. Like it's not that you're turning the you're not giving a personality to the tree. Like at least I don't think so. What I hear you saying is it's just a way to think through a process and look for what's happening, to analyze something, use something physical that just occurred or has occurred, and just spend some time thinking about it and looking for a different way. Don't just look at it like a tree fell over and it's dead and now it's not doing anything. It continues to have a purpose. So actually, breaking of the tree.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah. So as I'm listening, I'm thinking about yesterday. See, I'm not somebody that can really sit down and watch TV or commit to watching a movie very often. But my son talked me into it. So we spent three hours watching this movie. And you know, I'm actually kind of paying attention, getting into it for a change. And I see the you know, the progress of the story, the more the moral story that they're trying to teach. And there's this big old complicated production. And I think that's how we identify nowadays, just because it's easy to stare at someone, as opposed to really truly close our eyes and just listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Oh, you're saying like you some you're we're allowing someone else to tell us the story instead of us?

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Right. And that's exactly what what that meditation example does.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Is it it it engages your creativity, your imagination with the same moral, you know, as you're watching a movie and you see somebody go through the conflict, eventually become a hero and win at the end. And you're like, oh yeah, I can do that. There's all kinds of bells and whistles and beautiful, you know, lasers and this and that with it. But then when I when you sit down around a fire and somebody tells the story and simplifies the process, takes all the stimuli away. Now you're actually walking through it, and you are that hero in the story that goes through whatever that conflict was, learns how to res how to find the resolution, and then put it into practice.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah, it's interesting that people watch movies and they read stories in completely different ways, right? Yes. Like someone just takes it for what it is, it's entertainment, and another person, it's like this recent release of the Odyssey, right? It's like uh people are on two sides of the the field where it's it's either a failure of a movie or it's really awesome. And I feel like depending on where you're at, it's like how you perceive the movie to be. Um and what the movie's supposed to be pointing out. And I don't know. I I I hate I would hate to tell some sometimes it sucks to overanalyze things all the time and to always come up with like it's nice to just let your to just be fed a thing and be like, oh, that's a great story, that's great, it's some great acting, but I feel like some there's a neutral ground there. It's like, ah, what is this author trying to actually express through this story arc? And there's a journey in that, but then also there's you need to probably transition that into the practice of creating that story arc yourself. You know, like the things that happen in your life, or you know, doing that kind of thing, like enabling that portion of yourself to be a little more analytical. And oh, I wonder how I could turn this into a learning. Maybe that's the whole point. Like maybe that's the practice is turning events that occur into a learning lesson. I think it's yeah, exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

If you're becoming more aware of your situation and you're actually putting in the the work to be more present, because you have this goal of getting from point A to point B improvement or whatever it is, it's just that. It's when you become aware and you put yourself in the shoes.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Whether whether it's a visual story or somebody telling you these the story audible or you're actually reading a book. If you get in there and you actually walk through the steps, I think that's where we really learn not only the morality of a story, but then we also learn how to give ourselves credit when we're actually in the trenches going through it.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

What the f the the third piece is the out the the the role the outdoors plays in this whole thing. Um I guess one of the pieces. Uh you mentioned walking as a meditation and the outdoors sitting down, spending time like being quiet on a stump somewhere. This is the this is my next phase of the podcast. And I don't think it's ever gonna come to an end, because I think it's gonna be a like a lifelong research project. But I am really fascinated with trying to understand what the heck is happening out there to us. Because whether you know it's happening or not, so Something out something in the outdoors when you disconnect, like, and we'll just kind of yes, walking down a path in your local neighborhood, that's one step. But like when you really push yourself into the we'll call it the backcountry, or get some a little bit of isolation, there is something really special that happens out there. And I want to understand it. And I think the first step to understanding it is like asking other people, like what they experience and what they think it is. So I would love to hear your thoughts on what is happening. What is it about spending time in nature that enables this like positive like energy or um peace and quiet inside? A poll to do it more. Like, I don't know where to start, I don't know where to end, but I I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

So, yeah, that that's actually uh a very deep thing that I spent a lot of time contemplating myself. And I've sought out numerous answers myself, and I think the one that really resonates most with my experience would be the fact that when you get out there, you're actually taking life up on the invitation that it's handing you because you're becoming the most present, most active participant within really the natural theater that you can. And when you get out there and you start to experience that, you let go of you know everything else that's going on, you really see the natural flow and cycle of the world and life in itself. The way that when you look up on a clear, sunny day, you see the sun. And the sun itself is you know beaming down and providing nourishment for all the plants, all the greenery and vegetation that you see. And that greenery and vegetation needs the support of the sun in order to grow. As it grows, it then feeds and nourishes and supports the animals that move throughout the world. And those animals, they not only need the land, but they also need the sun. Then you think about us and how we fit in there because the animals provide us substance and many other things, but we need more than just them. We also need the vegetation, we also need the sun, and there's just a natural supporting system there, and each aspect of that system not only takes something, but it also gives something back. And this is where I think a lot of people really struggle when they try to find the simplest way of what they contribute to life, is because humans have a voice. We're the only thing on this earth that have a voice. Our story and our voice serves as the storyteller. We support everything else by giving it in return for all that it gives us, we give it the character.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

When you were describing that life cycle, and when you what I heard, what I what I heard, how I took it, I'm not gonna say what you said, but how I what I interpreted as you were talking was maybe one of the things people experience when they go outdoors is the participation of that life cycle. You're involved in the life cycle just merely by being there. And as you were talking, I wrote down this note that maybe that's why people hate going to the office. Because it's artificial lighting that doesn't grow anything, it does, it's not nourishing anything, and all it does, all all and I realize that everyone has to have a job. Like, put that aside. But like the we'll take the classic office setting that people are forced into and they have to go do, right? There's not I've never met, I don't I meet very rare people that are like, I love going to the office, it brings me energy. No, it sucks energy from you because you become then the light source that feeds a thing, and the only thing you get back is a paycheck, which is great. Because it has to you have to make ends meet. But the I'm talking about the environment, the physical environment. You're participating in something that is not natural. And so when you go into this is where my mind went, when you go into an environment where that's all that's happening, like two environments side by side a forest or wherever, a natural environment, a man-made environment, concrete, walls, lights, just those two things have a completely different invitation and a different participation level. That's why I think I wonder if that's why people love gardening because they're like working with the earth, there's they're part of this environment, like this life cycle that you're talking about. They they raise animals, they're part of the life cycle. I think hunting um is another way to participate in that life cycle and why people enjoy hunting, regardless of you know what they're doing out there. Like you kind of describing that life cycle, and like I'm imagining how I feel when I go into an office setting or a natural setting. Maybe that's it, man. Maybe your body just intuitively knows where where it's at. And the environment and the vi the whatever frequencies are going on, the vibrations, the energy, like the energy in an office is way different than the energy in the forest.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

I think that's a really good way of putting that because it's very true. I know when I'm from personal experience, when I get outside, there is that natural, like deep breath, like this is where I truly belong.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

It sounds so cheesy, dude.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

It does. It really does. And I think it sounds, I think it sounds that way because it's just too simple. Right. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Well, also, it sounds cheesy. It's like uh oh yeah, it's like, oh of course, you feel great in the woods, you know. It's like this moniker type thing. It's it sounds so cheesy, but it's show me someone that like doesn't feel something. Like I everyone is like they get a little taste of it, and they're like, I don't know, it's pretty nice. It's pretty nice walking through the trees today.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah. And I I think actually I've encountered a number of people that they they look at it and they go, it's cheesy because they're scared of it.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Yeah, dude, it's uncomfortable that you like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Like they're they're just so in tune with the nine to five get up, go through life, and you know, don't blink an eye and just straight, straight shot.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Your body craves that. Your body craves routine.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Right. And then the one day they'll say, okay, I'm gonna go outside, but I don't even know where to start.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

And if I if I do actually drive to even the park, let alone someplace remote, I'm not gonna have cell phone service. And nine times out of ten, I'm gonna get eaten by a bear. There's not even any.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

There's always a bear.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

There's always a bear involved. And I think that you know, in in our society, we have gotten so attuned to making excuses for things that are just too simple. Yeah. If there, if there's not a result that can be measured in a metric, then there's no point in doing it. And I think a lot of when we have conversations like this that honor the outdoors in any manner, it's like the complete opposite of that. Because we're honoring something that is essentially a part of us. This is where we come from. This is you look back through the evolution of mankind. We came from nature. You know, our we started out as hunting hunters and gatherers, and eventually we learned how to simplify the job. And now that natural need to survive has become so simplified that anything outside of the context of today is just un, it's doesn't feel normal, but it is very natural. And when it feels not normal, it feels unsafe. But I think listening to conversations like this changes that vocabulary or at least makes it a little bit more okay to step into somewhere that's uh comfortable. Yeah, I can put my shoulders down, I can experience that, and then I get out there and I realize that there's not a bear hiding behind the power line waiting to eat me. I don't even need my phone because if I was sitting on the couch, somebody probably wouldn't even be calling me anyway. And I just get to enjoy this beautiful scenery and this beautiful surrounding. And I think that that's some of the most important first steps that anybody can just understand and and try to take is just go sit somewhere simple and forget about all the metrics for even five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yeah. Yeah, what's the obsession with the metrics? It's measurable, I get it. Like, but listen to the metric that's going on inside of you for once. Yeah. Like that's the only metric that should matter. Like I say that with a caveat, obviously. But like what's the metric? Maybe that's a good, maybe that's a question for like to think for me to like think about after this conversation is like what's your internal metric saying? Like and to me, that's like my internal voice, like compass going back to your uh comment earlier. Like, what's it saying? Why is it saying that? One of the things that I love about the outdoors is it it scales in terms of uh where you're at. It scales for where you're at on your journey. If you want the out, if you're where you're at is like, I just want to get outside, there's a probably a local trail nearby your where you live, or some way. There's a tree or a view, something nearby. But if you're like you want to climb El Capitan, you could do that too. You can even climb Mount Everest. There's no shortage of wild and crazy adventures out there. And you can scale it up or you can scale it back. And I think you can find value in all of it. Like my personal outdoor journey has been, I'm not saying I'm not like the world's foremost adventurist, not at all. But I feel like I've collected, I've I can see my trajectory and I've all these different markers along the way. And I mean, just off the bat, on a really simple scale, when I first got into the outdoors and like backpacking, we'll call it backpacking specifically. We'll just go with that. I could not be out there alone. I did not want to be alone. And I needed to be with somebody, and not only that, but I wanted to fill the quiet void that is the wilderness with conversation. And then I experienced being alone for the first time, feeling that awkwardness and having no one to talk to. And I filled that void with uh podcasts and music. And then I got to the point where I was I preferred just to have it be me. Like I was like, I actually podcast, I actually it's kind of distracting because going back to your point earlier about walking meditation, I found one of the most enjoyable things for me to do is to walk quietly with a backpack on for a couple of hours. Sit down, have a snack, and do it again. Sit down, have a snack, and then do it again. Like it's so nice. And I don't know what I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

I don't think that there's really a need to understand it, though. But I I think overall you just beautifully set the table for somebody that might listen to this conversation with that curiosity of wanting to go into an outdoor space but not know how to do it or feel intimidated because the reality is, like you said, you can scale the outdoors to any level that you may be at or any time frame you have. The most important part is the fact that it's all around us. And because it's all around us, there's always an open invitation. You know, you think about going back to the nine to five world, the fact that, like, when you lose a job, the only way to open the door is to put another application in. In this scenario, the only thing that it takes is to open your front door and walk outside. And technically, you're outside. You know, technically you're into the wilderness.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

That is such a great point, dude. Yes. Thank you so much for saying that. Because we I I mean, I do it all the time. I'm like, well, this wasn't worth it. Like, I want to, like, I'm feeling like I want to go outdoors and get a backpacking trip in. Excuse me. And I forget that I could, okay, so I can't go on a backpacking trip. Or I can't drive an hour to my favorite trailhead or whatever it might be. Or I don't have time to go on a hike at a local park. But I can open my front door and smell some fresh air. And even if I'm in the middle of the city, at least I'm outside.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

That's exactly the most beautiful point of that is the fact that we've said it over and over again. The the outdoors offers an invitation.

unknown 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

It offers an invitation to reset. And I, you know, I hate stealing quotes over and over again and going back to the same person, but when it comes to life and this idea of trying to discover your purpose, we stumble into it. You know, Bearhart in that book also talked about exactly that. You can go through life saying, This is my purpose, and then you get there and you're not happy. But later on in life, you stumble into something and it's the most fulfilling thing in the world because that is the purpose that was written in your heart. And I think about how I've even gotten to where I'm at today. You know, I spent my entire life, even though there was the outdoor aspect of you know, an adventure to it. But the grindstone. I did the nine to five, you know, my little bit of free time. I'd go out and do whatever, but and I thought that was life. I thought I was happy. Then it all fell apart, and I realized how unhappy and how disconnected, and how I didn't even know who I was. And then going through that journey, I stumbled into the true authentic purpose. And I think that's another beautiful thing that the outdoors offers is that roadmap to test your theories and actually discover that about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Someone somewhere is gonna be like, that sounds great. I'm glad for you. Yeah, I'm glad you found your purpose, Mike. You know what I mean? Like, someone's gonna have that response, dude. Like, but let me tell you this. Like, I dude, I watched the most random, random video the other day. First off, before I tell you this, I think that if you are closed off to any of this stuff, that's on you. If you're open to it, that's also on you. What do you have to lose? Right? If you're totally happy, keep doing your thing. But if there's any part of you that's like kind of wondering, like if Mike's crazy or not, maybe you should find out on your on your own. And I heard this quote in this random video. It was like a it was like this special forces guy talking. Here's the video. It was a special forces guy talking about a mission that he was on, and this guy that he was with, they were in the mountains of wherever, and it was like this crazy vista came about. They were in the wilderness on a real mission, and there was this frozen waterfall that they'd come across. And in there, they're in the middle of like nowhere Afghanistan. Probably no one's seen this thing. Specifically, no one's probably seen it frozen. And he said, His team leader they get up to this water, this frozen waterfall, and his team leader was like, We should we should just look at this for a second. And he was like, What? He's like, we should just appreciate this for one minute. And so he said they sat there and just looked at this frozen waterfall on like a mission that they were on. And then they he's after like a minute or two of staring at it, he's like, Alright, let's go. And they went back and they continued on doing their thing. And I don't know where or I don't know how he got to this quote, but he said, What's the point in living if you don't give a shit? And that was his takeaway was like, here's this guy, this team leader, special forces team leader, that took a minute on a mission to just appreciate something. And was able to break his con his like be conscious enough to break for one second on a high-stakes mission to just appreciate something. And that could dude, I feel like that mentality can directly apply to what you're talking about of like sitting on a stump looking at a broken st broken tree or playing in the dirt, throwing some rocks at us at a log and that's floating by in a creek. Like I watch my kids do it all the time. Dude, they the second there's a patch of dirt, they're doing something with it. They and whether or not they know it, they're appreciating it. I think the next step is like actually consciously appreciating it. And like actively being like, oh, okay, like being present. But dude, that that quote that he said, that thing that he said, I I wrote it down. I journaled about it that night. I was like, that's the only thing I wrote down.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

And you know, I think about maybe that is actually one of the course one of the most important things to do. But maybe that's one of the hardest parts about the human experience is really taking the time and the effort to find the bright spot in whatever moment you're finding yourself in. And I think about, you know, the EMS work. Those are days that I spend riding around, meeting people in the most challenging moments of their life, whether it's physical or mental or whatever it is. And that can wear down somebody really, really quick. I see it all the time with my with my coworkers. But when you stop and you look at the scenario and you try to find even the smallest thing to turn into something positive, it is the most powerful and renewing thing that you can do regardless of where you're at. And meditation and journaling are just really expansions and ways to ways to practice that tool.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

Yeah. Do you think that you've found your purpose?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

You know, I like to think that I have, but I've also learned to accept the fact that you can never step in the same river twice. So even though I've walking each day doing these things that I truly enjoy and find fulfilling, I can't say that it won't eventually evolve into something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

Beautiful. In fact, in fact, it's really interesting and neat to watch that evolution. You know, here with where I'm at now, it's actually a great example of that. You know, I had this collection of journals, was inspired by somebody to put it together and make the book. And now the book has opened the the door for me to take that Daniel Boone experience and investigation a little bit deeper and move on to now putting together a hike to hike the Boone Trace Trail. Yeah. Dude, what is the Boone Trace Trail? So the Boone Trace Trail and the evolution of coming west into Kentucky would be in the middle because there's three there's three different roads through the evolution. There was what was called the Warrior's Path and that was essentially what Boone followed until it ran out. And that was carved down by Buffalo and you know native tribes would use it for hunting and everything like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Established routes if you will yes over through through like and in that area there. I feel like dude I feel like everyone from the Kentucky area in this this region is going to be like yeah duh. Like anything east of the Mississippi I'm like I don't know man.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

And so uh you know he boone had hunted and knew about these different routes especially the warrior path and he ended up coming through with 30 around 30 axmanda to blaze a trail called Boone's Trail or Boone's Trace, which followed that and it goes up to Bimble and and through to uh Fort Boonesboro. And then later on as Kentucky became a state they decided that they needed kind of real infrastructure and had to expand the road so then they split it off and they uh created the Wilderness Road which is actually what Boone Boone's name gets attached to is the Wilderness Road but he didn't cut that road he cut Boon's trace. So he cut the middle one. Dude what's up with the East in this word trace everything's got a trace so the word the idea of around the word trace is actually the fact that it was kind of cut into the land the land is so worn down okay that you can that you can see it even in even today there are areas of boon's trace that you can go back and see the actual indent that was called that was considered the trace then I'm such an idiot in my head I was like duh it's freaking trace like well because we like okay growing up in the West we always hear about the Oregon Trail.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

Yeah but what the heck like how did they go from referencing traces to like all of a sudden trails? It's a weird I'm just like riffing here but like it is kind of weird that why didn't they call it the Oregon trace? You know what I mean? They're it's worn down.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

I wonder if it's just like generational change I think so it's probably just generational evolutionary phrasing. But yeah I mean to me I think about the word trace and I think you know old game trail.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

Right. And then and then he took that and he blazed it out you know I marked the path and people followed through and it's really I haven't actually been there yet to a lot of the places that I'm going to go but I've been told in my studies so far that there are places you can actually see the original trace that they would walk.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

So that's going to be really cool to experience and see do you do you feel like an emotional connection to Daniel Boone in the sense that like it he was his story impacted you like you found you used him as as a as like a founding a foundation stone it sounds like so yeah there is that I do feel that that connection and he becomes a mirror at least in my life and then there's moments that have happened that I kind of stop and I look and I go that's weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

Because I I feel like you know I've tried to kind of put it down and just be like okay that chapter's happened let's move on and then something different pulls me back into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

So it it's an interesting you're saying the chapter of like Daniel Boone like like he pulls you back into it?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

Like I tried to go through like I went through and I did the journals and did my own personal thing that was never supposed to become anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

And um along that track it was really strange because I got to Boonesboro the very first time I went there I sat down on the original marker and site where where the fort stood and I meditated and you know there was nobody around and I felt something tap me on the shoulder and then I go boon and then I hear Boone's not here. And you know I jumped up I'm like what the heck you know nobody's around whatever that was really strange to me. Then I realized well not that I'm specifically out here looking for somebody that lived 200 years ago but if I if I was Kentucky would not be the place to look for him. When he moved to Missouri he said he would never go back to Kentucky because of the way he was treated there you know there's a story that he went back one time to repay all the debts that he had over in Kentucky and then never went back after but that's up for debate whether or not he really did. Then I ended up toward actually toward the end of the book and later on in the journey I ended up at his gravesite and I sat down and I meditated there. Now my old podcast used to start with the Daniel Boone quote and I was sitting there meditating and I kind of felt somebody staring off from the side kind of chuckling like hey somebody finally understood what I was talking about. And then I went over to uh his son Nathan's house they have it set up as a preserve and a park nowadays and I went there and I was you know looking around and I thought it was quite ironic that that of all quotes that was the quote that was on everything everywhere around the site. What's the quote? The quote is I was never truly lost was turned around in the woods for three days but I was never truly lost and then you know I have the experience and I put the book together and being a first time author you know I'm like excited that it's done I get the proof copies back in the mail and I decide okay I'm gonna I'm gonna be kind of funny and you know celebrate whatever and go take pictures with the book wherever I feel like driving and wherever it's relevant. And uh I ended up down in Chillicothe, Ohio. And it was at the Great Seal Park there's a little thing about the uh James Holloway cabin that's a couple miles down the road in Expenia. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go there and take a picture with my book. And I I go in and they had just opened so a lot of the buildings including the cabin were still locked. And I went into the main office and you know I started talking to the nice lady that was uh taking care of the place that day and she asked why I was down there and what I was interested in and I was like can I just wrote this book about Boone and uh you know just taking pictures with it. And she goes oh I'm a distant relative so I actually got to hand the book to somebody that's you know in a distant relative in the family.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:28

Oh that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

That was really neat for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

And then you know with the uh upcoming hike I feel like that's just the next progression of it so who knows where this ends up going well it's so interesting man I think when you emailed me I was like what I was like this is random like you emailed me you mentioned the boon thing and I was like this is wild there's someone because for me Lewis and Clark I got really obsessed with the story of Lewis and Clark and like did exactly what you did like just couldn't get enough of it dove right in and they started coming alive to me like the whole thing I'm I could just diarrhea of the mouth about why it's so amazing but they that story their story in like inspired so much of like me and I use them as like an anchor point. I mean by land came from the the word by land came from their expedition yeah like Clark used to sign he he was like he would sign these um journal entries um when they were going up to Missouri you know came X amount of miles you know this day whatever but then when they started traveling over land he switched it he would say came tw he'd say something like came 23 miles by land and I was like that's it that's it that's the thing and ever since um I've it has put me on a trajectory that I never thought was would happen. I just started writing and like learning and and I still use them as like this anchor point they're they're the story just like you do as this anchor point of and it's I think that was like the most that's why I wanted to talk to you it was like oh I want to meet someone that kind of is in the same bucket as me and then and then like I was like okay cool let's see where this goes and then we just spend the last hour and I'm just in awe man like thank you so much for uh being you sharing your story um waking up the next morning and finding that stoic quote dude you know it's my privilege and in reality I think all of this you know it was something I never asked for or expected and just kind of fell into it and probably the most rewarding part of it is the conversations that have come out of it. Dude yes yeah like one thing with that book that I did after the fact because I sat on it for about three months after I finished it and realizing that it came from a conversation internally but then it took life based off of another conversation externally and even the the presentation the way that it's written is more of a sit around a campfire have a conversation so I built a journal that comes with the book and that to me I've noticed in a lot of the conversations I've had with people that's the part that really seems to hit home the most is the fact that it is one of those things that you can read the the experience read the journey but you can make it your own man you're good dude I appreciate it um thank you so much for this conversation I feel like I could I feel like I have so many more questions for you and I mean I I I want a whole podcast just on Daniel Boone. I feel like I was like I'm gonna learn me some Daniel Boone today uh but that was not what needed to happen. So uh like I said when we before we started recording uh I let the podcast go where it needs to go and I feel like oh yeah uh one of my goals with the podcast has always been I don't care if it reaches a million people I want it to reach one person that needs to hear it on that day that's all I care about one person.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

That has always been my motivation ever from right from the start because you know that that one person that one day was me.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:25

Exactly dude and then one day yes thank you yes because one person can turn into a a million in the right in the best way possible yeah I mean dude look at Marcus Aurelius that whole that whole meditations thing wasn't even meant for anybody which is crazy it's crazy for anyone that doesn't know just for the record there's this book out there called Meditations by Marcus Aurelius who ran the Roman Empire yes um for a period of time and he wrote personal notes to himself personal journal entries he was a stoic he practiced stoicism and he wrote this private journal that after he died I don't know the how it came to be but essentially they they published these entries and you can flip through this book there's chapters and they've they've like published these entries and you don't necessarily need to read it front to back. You can just open a page and read his thoughts of the day and it is very profound. It is incredible and uh it's one of those books you can just keep on your nightstand pop open from time to time read something and if you just read one thing it's great. And it's just thoughts of a human being that was in a really particular scenario that was try that appeared to try to do the right was trying to do the right thing 100% like it's a really cool book like really really cool book.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

It's a very powerful book. Yeah because it's not a book it's very true.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Right? Like that's the beauty of it Meditations you know translates and means to myself yeah so it's his internal monologue that he's putting out so the point is maybe start writing a little daily journal because you never know right you just never freaking know man uh okay to wrap up you have do you still have the podcast yes I do under a different name now. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:51

So the podcast now is called The Honest Outdoors.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:57

But it's also it's on my old feed so you can find all the old Project Mindfully outdoors episodes there as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

So okay so you have a podcast you have the book and the book is uh let me scroll up real fast Honest Wilderness Finding Daniel Boone and the Frontier Within Yep um and your Mike Martin That's right so it looks like your website Project Mindfully Outdoors that's where people need to go to learn more.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:31

That's Space Camp right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:32

That's where you learn everything and you can find links to everything is right there on Project Mindfullyoutdoors.com I'll put all of these links in the show notes so people can just find them easily but I I boy you have my vote dude I'm really glad you're here um and consider you can consider yourself having a friend in the Pacific Northwest if you're ever out here I might get out there one day all right yeah if you're ever in the Portland area look me up take my not yeah I'll give you my number and everything so stay in touch dude um you my friend are welcome on the podcast anytime you like uh you just message me and be like let's it's time for a chat like if anything changes or you just got some thoughts like this I freaking love this kind of stuff and if you want to do a whole episode on Daniel Boone I'm down. I'd love to sweet well dude have such a great day thank you so much man do you have any any closing thoughts anything you know I've been leaving people with that simple Daniel Boone quote that I've used five or six times so I'll I'll use something different.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

The only Daniel Boone quote that really comes to mind now is the only true way to find happiness is a good gun and a good woman. Nice that good that good gun I would change it to a good pen good pair of hiking boots and a backpack. Yeah you can turn the woman into the outdoors because freedom is out there to be found dude I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:05

Thank you so much man I appreciate your time I appreciate it thank you. All right that is it for episode 180 with Mike Martin thanks so much for tuning in to follow up on anything we mentioned in this episode all the books we mentioned all the links I've included all of it in the show notes so be sure to check that out when you have a chance and if you haven't yet introduced yourself to me please do. I love hearing from you guys I always respond. Ask anyone who's messaged me and they will tell you that I will send them a long-winded response in reply. So don't hesitate to reach out I love it just email me at emory at byland.co and I promise I will get back to you. It's one of my favorite things to do. With that said that's it for me if you're headed out on an adventure anytime soon be safe make great decisions and we'll see you next time